now what :)

[tkalfaoglu]

Hello everyone.. Newbie into the solar world.. My aim is to save money basically. outrageous electricity prices here in Te urkey.. but plenty of sunshine!
I bought 4 panels now totalling 250 Watts/12v , and I have a solar controller (aliexpress, 40 amps), a car battery and a 12v->220v device (700watts) which I believe is made for a car. I of course would like to keep expanding my solar power to encompass more of the house, but not sure about what to do next.
The cheapest-yet-still-affordable panels I found are 100 watts. Do I just keep adding them to the roof? Get more batteries as I go along? How does one proceed?

Many thanks, -t

[NEOH]

Typically, we start with a PLAN ... then we buy everything, then we install everything and finally we enjoy the "free energy".
Constantly "growing" a Solar Panel System is not the best way, not an easy way, not a recommended way, to implement a Solar Panel System.

Issue #1
=======
A car / automotive battery is not what we call a Deep Cycle Battery.
After just a couple of months, a Car Battery will not provide very much power.
Even some batteries labelled as "Deep Cycle" (ie Boat Trolling Motor Batteries ) are not true Deep Cycle Batteries.

Issue #2
=======
You need to make sure your battery bank does not get too deeply discharged each night.
This depends upon the size of your loads and the length of time they are ON.

Issue #3
======
Typically, we do not add new batteries to an older battery bank.

The size ( watts, volts, amps, amp-hours ) of your:
a) PV Array ( 4 x 65 Watts = 250 Watts Total )
b) Charge Controller ( 40 amps )
c) Battery Bank ( car battery )
d) DC-to-AC 220v Inverter ( 700 Watts )
are all very interdependent upon each other.

A 12 Volts system can only get so large (wattage), until eventually a 24 Volt system is a better design.
A 24 Volts system can only get so large (wattage) , until eventually a 48 Volt system is a better design.

When you upgrade from a small 12 Volt system to a medium 24 Volt system or
When you upgrade form a medium 24 volt system to a large 48 Volt system, you will need to ...
a) replace your Charge Controller
b) replace your Battery Bank
c) replace you DC-to-AC Inverter

Constantly "growing" a PV System is a very expensive process

The Inverter should be sized per your daily loads.
The Battery Bank should be sized for your daily loads and not regularly exceed to 50% discharge max each night
The Solar Array should be sized to run the Inverter and recharge you battery bank the next day.
The Charge Controller should be sized per the PV Array

[SunEagle]

I agree with NEOH. It is very hard to "grow" a solar / battery system without wasting money. There are just too many places to lose money which is counter to what you wanting to save money.

Also unless the cost to purchase power from your POCO or electric utility is more than $1.0/kWh generating power from a battery system will never save you money.

[Sunking]

You cannot save money off grid. Bad plan.

[max2k]

You cannot save money off grid. Bad plan.

it would be interesting to see OP electricity prices, his monthly bill and equipment prices. I doubt the eventual conclusion would be different, just doing due diligence. He came up with this idea somehow; would be interesting to see details of his analysis if there was any of course.

[SunEagle]

it would be interesting to see OP electricity prices, his monthly bill and equipment prices. I doubt the eventual conclusion would be different, just doing due diligence. He came up with this idea somehow; would be interesting to see details of his analysis if there was any of course.

The problem is the OP already has 4 panels that total 250watt which is probably a mixture of different wattage. A no name charge controller, a car battery and a 700 watt inverter.

All of that equals a big headache to build a solar / battery system for on or off grid.

While money may be tight now imagine 6 months down the road when the battery fails. The OP would then need to scramble to find a new battery which will probably still not match the panel wattage required to properly charge it. That just means more expense.

It becomes a never ending downward spiral to build and up grade a solar / battery system with the hopes of saving money.

While I am totally for using solar pv system I try to make sure others do not waste their money thinking they can save money by generating their own power from batteries. On top of that unless you design and size the system from the beginning you will just throw away money enlarging a small one.

[inetdog]

I try to make sure others do not waste their money thinking they can save money by generating their own power from [PV and storing it till they need it using] batteries.

FIFY

[NEOH]

... My aim is to save money basically ... . outrageous electricity prices here in Turkey ... but plenty of sunshine!

Can you tell us what you pay per Killowatt-Hour of electricity?

it would be interesting to see OP electricity prices, his monthly bill and equipment prices. I doubt the eventual conclusion would be different, just doing due diligence. He came up with this idea somehow; would be interesting to see details of his analysis if there was any of course.

I agree.
In Germany, they pay three times what we pay per KWH in USA.

[tkalfaoglu]

Thank you very much for taking your time and enlightening me; I really hoped I could save some dough
Checking my last electricity bill, I seem to have paid $75 for 739 KW/h. This has been a good month; I usually pay double that.. Triple during winter months with heat pump coming on.
Anyway, so no; my electricity cost seems to be $0.10 / kw here. Hence it's not economical to keep adding hardware or revamping the whole system. Too bad because I bought another 100W panel and a deep cycle battery just today. I'll stop buying
I do have a fair amount of stuff running off solar power now, and I'm happy to be running them "for free": A bunch of LED motion sensor spots, two CCD cameras, the water circulation pump and controller of my solar-water-heater tank.
Regards, Turgut Kalfaoglu

[ButchDeal]

Anyway, so no; my electricity cost seems to be $0.10 / kw here. Hence it's not economical to keep adding hardware or revamping the whole system. Too bad because I bought another 100W panel and a deep cycle battery just today. I'll stop buying
I do have a fair amount of stuff running off solar power now, and I'm happy to be running them "for free"

So have you calculated how much that ( not so ) " free" energy is costing you

[SunEagle]

So have you calculated how much that ( not so ) " free" energy is costing you

If the system includes some type of battery I would guess about $1.15 - $1.50/kWh.

[Sunking]

Thank you very much for taking your time and enlightening me; I really hoped I could save some dough
Checking my last electricity bill, I seem to have paid $75 for 739 KW/h.

What are you complaining about? That is less than 11-cents per Kwh. Go off grid and you will pay almost 10 times that much.

[max2k]

What are you complaining about? That is less than 11-cents per Kwh. Go off grid and you will pay almost 10 times that much.

may be his equipment costs are 0.1 of US prices?

[SunEagle]

may be his equipment costs are 0.1 of US prices?

Unless everything is free or stolen I doubt the cost of batteries and solar hardware are cheap anywhere.

[max2k]

Unless everything is free or stolen I doubt the cost of batteries and solar hardware are cheap anywhere.

I just want OP to see the full picture and possibly share it here. As we well know this 'free' electricity often turns out not so free when one starts doing some simple calculations.