Solar roof

[silverhorsefarm]

now the scales fall from my eyes.

[J.P.M.]

Lettle mention in Forbes

https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidle.../#5ffc74d719df

Maybe the OP will read the article and rethink his position.

[ButchDeal]

Lettle mention in Forbes

https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidlevine/2017/05/12/why-you-should-buy-the-apple-watch-edition-before-the-tesla-solar-roof/#5ffc74d719df

[J.P.M.]

It looks like the advertisement are expanding. In today's St Pete Times there was an article stating that Tesla was opening up the market in Florida and they were now accepting deposits to get in line for a solar roof once they are made.

I would sure like to see the technical drawing detailing one of those solar roofs to see exactly how they plan on wiring the panels to the inverter.

The was one footnote in the article stating the solar roof would be about 5 times the cost of a standard shingle roof. But hey it will look pretty.

I'd go w/Peakbagger on the bait & switch and lead generation as at least some of the marketing logic behind the roof tile scam, especially now that A/C season is close to upon those of us in warmer latitudes and folks do their annual knee jerk sticker shock to the higher A/C caused electric bills, and the vendors have a feeding/sales frenzy until Oct. or so.

Also seems that the press in many markets is looking to fill news space w/free advertising. The Buffalo News took the info and spun it as good news for the SolarCity panel factory in Buffalo. It's just business.

[SunEagle]

Given the upfront costs for panels I don't see a lot of folks writing checks for an install, therefore it becomes an opportunity to write solar leases which is where the real money is at. Solar roofs are being marketed as groundbreaking technology with no competitors, so Tesla will get the homeowner to ignore conventional panels. It also can indirectly be used to sell plain old solar panels. In theory putting a deposit process in place creates a fairly valuable client list. Tesla can then send a so called "engineer" or "technician" to the site to visit the owner. I expect the "engineer' is far more a salesman than an "engineer". Realistically it doesn't take lot of training to follow a canned site assessment checklist that can be mostly automated. The salesman then has a highly motivated customer and its up to the salesmen to bait and switch the homeowner into switching to plain old solar panels conveniently sold by Tesla now instead of the solar roof later. I expect that a big chunk of PV sales are now impulse purchases and expect that an average consumer wants near instant gratification. The more I see the more this lines up with the new and used car business.

It looks like the advertisement are expanding. In today's St Pete Times there was an article stating that Tesla was opening up the market in Florida and they were now accepting deposits to get in line for a solar roof once they are made.

I would sure like to see the technical drawing detailing one of those solar roofs to see exactly how they plan on wiring the panels to the inverter.

The was one footnote in the article stating the solar roof would be about 5 times the cost of a standard shingle roof. But hey it will look pretty.

[peakbagger]

Given the upfront costs for panels I don't see a lot of folks writing checks for an install, therefore it becomes an opportunity to write solar leases which is where the real money is at. Solar roofs are being marketed as groundbreaking technology with no competitors, so Tesla will get the homeowner to ignore conventional panels. It also can indirectly be used to sell plain old solar panels. In theory putting a deposit process in place creates a fairly valuable client list. Tesla can then send a so called "engineer" or "technician" to the site to visit the owner. I expect the "engineer' is far more a salesman than an "engineer". Realistically it doesn't take lot of training to follow a canned site assessment checklist that can be mostly automated. The salesman then has a highly motivated customer and its up to the salesmen to bait and switch the homeowner into switching to plain old solar panels conveniently sold by Tesla now instead of the solar roof later. I expect that a big chunk of PV sales are now impulse purchases and expect that an average consumer wants near instant gratification. The more I see the more this lines up with the new and used car business.

[J.P.M.]

I would not hold your breath waiting on a call back.

As far as I know they haven't begun producing these shingles in any great amount to sell to the public yet. Give them at least until early next year before they start to go up on test roofs.

And then give about 1,000 roof a 3 yr. test run to get things right, if ever.

As for callbacks, since this looks like SolarCity in a Tesla suit, you'll get callbacks until you're on the hook. After that, if my experiences with them (SolarCity) are any indication, the lack of professionalism on communication (and many other areas) means you won't get much in the way of information. I wouldn't expect much more out of the experience regardless of what they call themselves.

[SunEagle]

We're getting started on a build of a large home, and this would improve the look over a bunch of panels on the roof, about as optimal as possible for a tesla solar roof . But I don't understand the wiring system of what inverters they are planning to use, and how they deal with shading etc... It's hard to do a apples to apples comparison of the technology to more conventional approaches with the info that is available now.

I suspect we'll have to wait for them to actually build a few before we find out all the details.

Has anyone received a callback from them?

thx
mike

I would not hold your breath waiting on a call back.

As far as I know they haven't begun producing these shingles in any great amount to sell to the public yet. Give them at least until early next year before they start to go up on test roofs.

[fresnoboy]

We're getting started on a build of a large home, and this would improve the look over a bunch of panels on the roof, about as optimal as possible for a tesla solar roof . But I don't understand the wiring system of what inverters they are planning to use, and how they deal with shading etc... It's hard to do a apples to apples comparison of the technology to more conventional approaches with the info that is available now.

I suspect we'll have to wait for them to actually build a few before we find out all the details.

Has anyone received a callback from them?

thx
mike

[tyab]

Butch - I was looking at the 2017 690.12 Rapid Shutdown stuff also and the only way I can see them making that work is to make a panel group that has some sort of microinverter or DC optimizer right there either directly part of that assembly or with a VERY SHORT cord (< 1') connecting it. Given that they want to have a flush appearance, lets say that module assembly attaches directly on the roof inside under the assembly. Then you run EMT/RMC/FMC to the other assembly modules and then have your final run to either inverters or interconnects if its an AC system. We will have to see what way they go - AC or DC when they ship real product. In any case a lot of penetrations in the roof so installers are going to have do a real good job making sure they are watertight. And given I believe those will have to be right under the roof - plan on them running in 140+F temps air environment.with no significant airflow around them so they will want to do a good job on the module engineering and not have the issues Enphase had at first. There is no question these tiles will be running hot so it will be interesting to see how that affects the overall output and $/watt.

[adoublee]

[*]Option 3: Install nonmetallic PV array with no exposed wiring and array more than 8 feet from any grounded metal parts.[/LIST]

I guess gutter aren't grounded. Probably a no go for any house with lightning protection.

[jflorey2]

I know there's a LOT of skepticism on this forum about Tesla's promised solar roof, but I remain optimistic that they can make it work:

I have no doubt that they can make it work; they've made far harder things work, and solar is a pretty established technology. The question is - would you be better off with a much cheaper (and just as efficient) panel based system? From my very early estimates their system costs about 3x what a standard system does for the same power.

[ButchDeal]

An interesting possibility that this could result in a net reduction of solar actually installed due to people who wait for it to be available or wait for a lower cost. I still haven't seen how the cells connect or how rapid shutdown is addressed (BIPV path of 2017 NEC?).

they seem to be using option #3 for NEC 2017:

• Option 1: List and label or field-label PV array as a rapid-shutdown PV array.
• Option 2: Limit control conductors within the array boundary to 80 V or less within 30 seconds of rapid-shutdown initiation.
• Option 3: Install nonmetallic PV array with no exposed wiring and array more than 8 feet from any grounded metal parts.

[adoublee]

well that is exactly the problem for us as well as any other sellers/installers out there.

An interesting possibility that this could result in a net reduction of solar actually installed due to people who wait for it to be available or wait for a lower cost. I still haven't seen how the cells connect or how rapid shutdown is addressed (BIPV path of 2017 NEC?).

[SunEagle]

I did my roof with GAF lifetime warranty energy star shingles for $4k (installed)

+1. I worked at GAF corporate engineering for 6 years. They make a pretty good shingle.