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  • PG&E rates schedules that support NEMS?

    Hey all, so I've had my solar array up for about three years now here in NorCal, and just purchased an EV. Based on my seasonal electricity consumption I think it'll be a close call whether I'll pay less on my current PG&E E-6 tiered TOU rate, or switch to EV-A. However, that's only going to be close if EV-A supports NEMS 1.0. The few discussions across the Internet that I can find are equally split arguing that EV-A doesn't support NEMS or that it does.

    I suspect it does and that NEMS is independent of what schedule you choose. But is there anyone here with firsthand experience that EV-A does indeed credit back solar energy sent to the grid at the prevailing retail rates?



  • #2
    In this thread:

    https://www.solarpaneltalk.com/forum...ption-extended

    User solardreamer is on EV-A and reports accumulating NEM credits.
    CS6P-260P/SE3000 - http://tiny.cc/ed5ozx

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    • #3
      Originally posted by sensij View Post
      In this thread:

      https://www.solarpaneltalk.com/forum...ption-extended

      User solardreamer is on EV-A and reports accumulating NEM credits.
      sensij, thanks for digging up that thread - it not only confirms EV-A, but really all the schedules - E1, E6, ETOU-A, ETOU-B - will accumulate NEM 1.0 credits at retail rates. Plus a lot of other helpful information as well.

      As was noted in there though, which is the best option is so situational dependent. With no A/C, my highest loads are in the winter evenings for lighting/TV/computer/furnace, and then evenings in general. The EV-A has more generous peak credits than E6, but shifts peak time to 2-9 pm. My solar array gets shaded after 2 pm, so not only would I lose peak credits from 1-2 pm, but my evening usage from 7-9 pm would now be metered at peak rates. OTOH, my steady base loads at night have crept up from 0.3 kw to 0.5 kw - too much smart home crap, plus the added EV charging going forward.

      Will probably stick with E6 for a time, since once I leave it I could never go back, and monitor the situation for a while.

      In terms of monitoring, has anyone tried the My PG&E Toolkit app to compare various rate schedules with ongoing data? I purchased it a few days ago, but the app got stuck at the intiial "Initializing .... Please wait a minute" sync with my PG&E account and never was able to download any data. I know I could model everything myself in Excel with my Green Button data in a few hours (esp if I can stay within E6 Tier1 it'll be a lot simpler), but just being lazy.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by wwu123 View Post

        In terms of monitoring, has anyone tried the My PG&E Toolkit app
        ...
        I purchased it a few days ago
        Never heard of it. 3rd party app I assume?

        I would use the PG&E website to get your past usage analyzed with different rateplans applied.

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        • #5
          The rate analysis webpage for pge is https://www.pge.com/myrateanalysis

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          • #6
            Originally posted by foo1bar View Post
            The rate analysis webpage for pge is https://www.pge.com/myrateanalysis
            Yeah, that doesn't work when you're on solar, or maybe specifically when you have NEMS with annual true-up. Almost none of the costing tools work on the electric portion with solar.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by foo1bar View Post

              Never heard of it. 3rd party app I assume?
              Yup, it's an iPhone only 3rd party app. Seems to have worked well for some EV users with or without solar, but I can't get it to connect to PG&E at all. Almost no developer support - the App Store takes you to their developer website for technical support, where there is not even any way to contact the developer or request help.

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              • #8
                The CPUC has required the IOU's to develop new rate comparison tools in anticipation of defaulting all residential customers to TOU plans (originally slated for 2019). Maybe the development of those tools has broken apps that once worked...
                CS6P-260P/SE3000 - http://tiny.cc/ed5ozx

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by wwu123 View Post

                  Yeah, that doesn't work when you're on solar, or maybe specifically when you have NEMS with annual true-up. Almost none of the costing tools work on the electric portion with solar.
                  The pge website rate analysis tool started working for me, a solar nem1 account, a couple months ago. Is it still not working for you?

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by cebury View Post

                    The pge website rate analysis tool started working for me, a solar nem1 account, a couple months ago. Is it still not working for you?
                    No, the rate comparison, the monthly bill comparison, even the detailed usage costs at the daily or hourly view (not by kwh) all haven't worked since getting solar. They all worked before, in fact I remember considering switching to E-6 even without solar because of my usage patterns.

                    The errors given by each tool are different - the rate analysis tool specifically says there is not enough data available. So perhaps if they've fixed the tool, it will show up with a few more months of data.

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                    • #11
                      OK, well this is interesting and odd, and maybe telling. I just went into the PG&E website to download my Green Button data, and all of my years and years of usage data is gone for everything prior to March 17. I used to analyze some data via the GUI tools a few times a year, mostly comparing the current year to the previous year - the web GUI also won't graph any electricity data prior to that date anymore. Gas usage data is all still there though.

                      I wonder what's so significant about that date? We've been at this address for 13 years, and nearly 10 years since we remodeled (and reopened our account). We had a few bad storms cause power outages, including arcing wires on the trees in front of our house twice. Did our meter get blown out? Nope, still the same Landis+Gyr meter with bird poop on it.

                      Well, I did archive hourly data from 2011 to 2013 that I can use, though our usage patterns and household members have shifted somewhat in more recent years.

                      EDIT: Aaand I just realized the 2011 to 2013 data will be useless now, since that was all before I had solar. Too bad as I just found someone's nice spreadsheet that I could plug a full year's data into and spit out a direct comparison of E6, EV-A and any other rates - nice job someone did on that XLS!
                      Last edited by wwu123; 04-25-2017, 08:14 PM.

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                      • #12
                        I have EV-A and solar. The cost of 1KWH of peak time is 45c and off peak is 12c. I heavily charge my car after 11PM, so that last 5 months accumulate -$50, given I used more than solar produced

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by cebury View Post

                          The pge website rate analysis tool started working for me, a solar nem1 account, a couple months ago. Is it still not working for you?
                          Old thread, but the PG&E rate analysis tool started working for me, though it says it's using only three months of data available. All my data prior to mid-March is still gone, but I guess there's enough now to start comparing. For me it says that E6 that I'm grandfathered on currently is still the best rate, with all the others EV-A, ETOU, E1 being fairly a wash at about 5% higher - though E1 actually squeaked in 2nd interestingly.

                          I can start doing the detailed spreadsheet analysis again, though I also noticed that the new data is at 15 minute intervals, whereas the spreadsheet I borrowed was designed to cut and paste the older hourly interval data. So unfortunately I'll have to do some retooling of that spreadsheet or processing of the data though.

                          The full-year analysis is critical for me though, as my winter usage profile is different than summer - as for all of us surely, but for me winter electricity usage is the highest due to low solar production, and more lighting and furnace blower activity. The introduction of winter peak rates in some schedules will hurt compared to E6 that has no peak rates in winter. It's not clear that the increased EV charging will offset that.

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                          • #14
                            Glad its working for you. E1 tiered is still 2nd place for me, but i use AC midday with a short EV commute to recharge EV at night so my profile is different. But recent rate changes made E1 flatter as 2 tier (plus a 400% supercharge tier) and then raised tier 1 rates, it necessarily changed solar net billing profiles. To be a good consumer (and frugal), you have to stay on top of their rate structures and verify youre on the most cost effective plan for your lifestyle, but sometimes it just isnt worth the effort and life is too short. But Ive loved the rate analysis tool since it was released and hope it is/continues to be accurate. It is so much easier now to pop in to once every 6 months to check. JPM pointed out some good things in another thread on SDGE rates discussion their tool. You have to be aware of its assumptions and limitations of the tool, the changes in rates, and how your own behaviors affect it.

                            So is your only archived data hourly since greenbutton is gone before March?

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                            • #15
                              Yes, I'd downloaded and archived Greenbutton data from 2012 and 2013 that was at hourly intervals. Those are plug and play into the spreadsheet, but useless for future decisions, sincd that was pre-solar and pre-EV. The current Greenbutton data is at 15-minute intervals, and I also have pvoutput.org data at 5-minute intervals. Either would be the same to process into hourly, plus pvoutput.org also has the pain that you can only download one day at a time from the web GUI. Unless someone out there is willing to write me a simple web-based script to their REST API that can return the entire year in a single HTML reponse.

                              At least with the Greenbutton data I can download everything from March 21 to present at once, and only need to do one postprocessing sweep in Excel to convert it to hourly.

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