DIY Self-Install in San Diego - 7.84 kW for < $1.30 / W

[J.P.M.]

Yes, i meant overnight as an example. I'll fix that.

Not a knock. Just sayin'.

[sensij]

On your statement re: "...in any 15 min in which energy is only consumed (overnight), all of the energy is subject to non-bypassable charge.", I think that time periods are not restricted to overnight.

I think we need a bit more clarification to go with the more data part, not only to figure out what happened, but in a larger scope, why. Like I suggested, call them. Their billing is not infallible, they made a 110 kWh error in my billing when I got PTO, about 2 months after a meter changeout BTW, that error was in my favor and I got to keep it.

Given the current, and looking like general, confusion, there may be some interpretation we're all getting wrong. Small potatoes now - maybe not small in the future, like Charlie's (and probably a lot of other's) misunderstanding/misreading of T.O.U. time periods and effective dates. A different understanding of what looks like is going to happen may have led to a different decision.

one other point: I believe the "net of exports" would cover all time periods, not just overnight.

Yes, i meant overnight as an example. I'll fix that.

[J.P.M.]

Here is the text:



and, from special conditon 1



A "metered interval" refers to each 15 minute interval of metering, as I understand it. So, in any 15 min in which energy is only consumed (overnight), all of that energy is subject to the non-bypassable charge. That clearly does not agree with the bill that CharlieEscCA posted, so I think we need more data to figure out exactly what they are doing.

On your statement re: "...in any 15 min in which energy is only consumed (overnight), all of the energy is subject to non-bypassable charge.", I think that time periods are not restricted to overnight.

I think we need a bit more clarification to go with the more data part, not only to figure out what happened, but in a larger scope, why. Like I suggested, call them. Their billing is not infallible, they made a 110 kWh error in my billing when I got PTO, about 2 months after a meter changeout BTW, that error was in my favor and I got to keep it.

Given the current, and looking like general, confusion, there may be some interpretation we're all getting wrong. Small potatoes now - maybe not small in the future, like Charlie's (and probably a lot of other's) misunderstanding/misreading of T.O.U. time periods and effective dates. A different understanding of what looks like is going to happen may have led to a different decision.

one other point: I believe the "net of exports" would cover all time periods, not just overnight.

[sensij]

Here is the text:

All eligible customer-generators taking service under this schedule are responsible for paying nonbypassable charges which pursuant to D. 16-01-044 are defined as Public Purpose Program (PPP) charges, Nuclear Decommissioning (ND) charges, the Competition Transition Charge (CTC), and the Department of Water Resources Bond Charge (DWR-BC). These charges will be based on the kWhs consumed in each metered interval net of exports as defined in Special Condition 1 of this schedule, over the course of each monthly billing period.

and, from special conditon 1

f. Nonbypassable Charges: Pursuant to D. 16-01-044 are defined as Public Purpose Program (PPP) charges, Nuclear Decommissioning (ND) charges, the Competition Transition Charge (CTC), and the Department of Water Resources Bond Charge (DWR-BC). These shall be based upon the kWhs consumed in each metered interval net of exports, over the course of each monthly billing period.

A "metered interval" refers to each 15 minute interval of metering, as I understand it. So, in any 15 min in which energy is net consumed (overnight, for example, or any 15 min interval in which loads exceed what is generated), the net consumed energy in that interval is subject to the non-bypassable charge. That clearly does not agree with the bill that CharlieEscCA posted, so I think we need more data to figure out exactly what they are doing.

[CharlieEscCA]

I believe I understand your meaning and probably feel similar, but if it's an error, they'll eventually find it anyway. Seems a potentially small thing at this time that, if/when it does go other way, might not be so small. An error is an error and will eventually be found/corrected. If not an error, communication could lead to better understanding of just WTF is going on.

I get what you are saying, but the SolarEdge website gives me a pretty good idea of import kWh. For example, my import was no more than 200 kWh last month. So even if every kWh had non reimbursable fees, we are only talking about $3.20, so, even if they come back and correct it, we are talking small change. But from my read of the tariff, it is net import for each day of each period, where period is peak or semi-peak or off-peak. I was expecting more than $0.10 and less than $3.20,

[J.P.M.]

No other info on the rest of the bill seems to point to an explaination. But the prior billing period was not TOU, so maybe something went wrong as part of the switch. I'll have to see what happens with next month's bill.


LOL, I think I'll pass on calling SDG&E to ask "why weren't my non-bypassable charges higher last month"

I believe I understand your meaning and probably feel similar, but if it's an error, they'll eventually find it anyway. Seems a potentially small thing at this time that, if/when it does go other way, might not be so small. An error is an error and will eventually be found/corrected. If not an error, communication could lead to better understanding of just WTF is going on.

[CharlieEscCA]

Charlie: FWIW, I can't figure it out either, except maybe some holdover from prior billing period. Anything to be gleaned from the rest of the bill ?

No other info on the rest of the bill seems to point to an explaination. But the prior billing period was not TOU, so maybe something went wrong as part of the switch. I'll have to see what happens with next month's bill.

I've had pretty good luck calling SDG & E once I get someone knowledgeable on the other end. Haven't done it in a couple of years though.

LOL, I think I'll pass on calling SDG&E to ask "why weren't my non-bypassable charges higher last month"

[J.P.M.]

The reason my net is less than one sees at PVoutput is primarily because the wattNode consumption meter is at the subpanel in my house where the SolarEdge breakers terminate. However this is fed from the main panel mounted at my detached garage, and this panel has several circuits that are not captured by the wattNode (including a freezer in the garage). Additionally, the wattNode I purchased on eBay for $27 (new, a steel of a deal) uses (per wattNode) CT's that are only about 97% accurate. And finally, everything I've read on SolarEdge states that it's reported production numbers might be a little on the high side.

And the numbers uploaded to PVoutput is production from SolarEdge and consumption from wattNode hooked into the SolarEdge (via an RS485 cable).

The first few weeks, I was tracking the reading at the meter and reported at the SolarEdge monitoring page daily, and then figuring out the daily discrepancy (a couple of kWh per day). Lately, I've just been tracking the SDG&E "my energy" and comparing with the SolarEdge numbers.

I have no clue where the 6 kWh came from. It certainly does not equal all the power pulled from the grid. It doesn't equal the +peak and +semi-peak and +off-peak numbers summed (that's what I was expecting based on what I read at the SDG&E FAQ webpage. The closest I got was the sum of days where the entire day way a +draw from the grid (though this was closest to 6 kWh.

I will say the credits from peak TOU (which I accumulated like crazy until this week) would have likely allowed me to downsize my installation, but it was terrific just having the thermostat set at 78 degrees this week -- before solar, last year, we would have likely only went A/C on at about 83 degrees in the house (we open all windows and the house gets into the 60's by morning). I also now now that my A/C is about 6 to 7 kWh per hour, which depending on how many hours the A/C is run, this can be 70 kWh per hot day or more -- i.e. I plan to use up as much of the credit I accumulate as I can while staying to the $0 bill (ignoring the $10 / month fee).

Charlie: FWIW, I can't figure it out either, except maybe some holdover from prior billing period. Anything to be gleaned from the rest of the bill ?
I've had pretty good luck calling SDG & E once I get someone knowledgeable on the other end. Haven't done it in a couple of years though.

[CharlieEscCA]

weird! I've having trouble with the numbers, though... looking at your PVoutput data suggests your net for the period should have been around -630 to -645 kWh. Are you not using an Eagle to upload the "net" data?

Have you been able to figure out where the 6 kWh came from, by downloading your interval data from their website?

The reason my net is less than one sees at PVoutput is primarily because the wattNode consumption meter is at the subpanel in my house where the SolarEdge breakers terminate. However this is fed from the main panel mounted at my detached garage, and this panel has several circuits that are not captured by the wattNode (including a freezer in the garage). Additionally, the wattNode I purchased on eBay for $27 (new, a steel of a deal) uses (per wattNode) CT's that are only about 97% accurate. And finally, everything I've read on SolarEdge states that it's reported production numbers might be a little on the high side.

And the numbers uploaded to PVoutput is production from SolarEdge and consumption from wattNode hooked into the SolarEdge (via an RS485 cable).

The first few weeks, I was tracking the reading at the meter and reported at the SolarEdge monitoring page daily, and then figuring out the daily discrepancy (a couple of kWh per day). Lately, I've just been tracking the SDG&E "my energy" and comparing with the SolarEdge numbers.

I have no clue where the 6 kWh came from. It certainly does not equal all the power pulled from the grid. It doesn't equal the +peak and +semi-peak and +off-peak numbers summed (that's what I was expecting based on what I read at the SDG&E FAQ webpage. The closest I got was the sum of days where the entire day way a +draw from the grid (though this was closest to 6 kWh.

I will say the credits from peak TOU (which I accumulated like crazy until this week) would have likely allowed me to downsize my installation, but it was terrific just having the thermostat set at 78 degrees this week -- before solar, last year, we would have likely only went A/C on at about 83 degrees in the house (we open all windows and the house gets into the 60's by morning). I also now now that my A/C is about 6 to 7 kWh per hour, which depending on how many hours the A/C is run, this can be 70 kWh per hot day or more -- i.e. I plan to use up as much of the credit I accumulate as I can while staying to the $0 bill (ignoring the $10 / month fee).

[sensij]

weird! I've having trouble with the numbers, though... looking at your PVoutput data suggests your net for the period should have been around -630 to -645 kWh. Are you not using an Eagle to upload the "net" data?

Have you been able to figure out where the 6 kWh came from, by downloading your interval data from their website?

[CharlieEscCA]

This is how I understand it as well. I don't know how to explain CharlieEscCA 's observation that only 6 kWh were charged NBC despite several hundred kWh feed from the grid.

You can look forward to a detailed bill posting a month from now, since I don't think an Sdg&e forum member on nem-st has done that yet.

Here's the June bill. I guarantee there was energy fed from the grid.

June Bill.PNG

[sensij]

It's a bit complicated, but if I'm correct in my understanding of how it works: For customers under NEM 2.0, the NBC's (non bypassable charges) which currently amount to $0.0174/kWh are charged for all kWh delivered by the POCO (note, not net kWh delivered) during each metered time interval (15 minutes) regardless of the monthly netting of the energy exported to the grid by the customer. In effect, that amounts to a reduction in the NEM rate by $0.0174/kWh. for a lot, or maybe all of the power produced by a residential array.

This is how I understand it as well. I don't know how to explain CharlieEscCA 's observation that only 6 kWh were charged NBC despite several hundred kWh feed from the grid.

You can look forward to a detailed bill posting a month from now, since I don't think an Sdg&e forum member on nem-st has done that yet.

[J.P.M.]

QUOTE=cebury;n352978]Charlie are you on an older grandfathered plan? What imported power is required for non-bypassable may be different? I'm sure JPM might have caught it by now.

It's a bit complicated, but if I'm correct in my understanding of how it works: For customers under NEM 2.0, the NBC's (non bypassable charges) which currently amount to $0.0174/kWh are charged for all kWh delivered by the POCO (note, not net kWh delivered) during each metered time interval (15 minutes) regardless of the monthly netting of the energy exported to the grid by the customer. In effect, that amounts to a reduction in the NEM rate by $0.0174/kWh. for a lot, or maybe all of the power produced by a residential array.

For the 900 or so hours/yr. peak that rates apply for DR-SES tariff = $0.50629/kWh - ouch ! (out of 8,760 hrs./yr.), with the other 7,860 hrs./yr. getting billed at something like ~ $0.23 - $0.25/kWh, if usage can be lowered to ~ 5,500 - 6,000 kWh/yr., it might make sense to stay on tiered rates as long as possible, especially if an all electric tariff is applicable. Or, if all/most use can be avoided for those 900 hrs. per year - after all, it is only and approx. 10% of the hours in a year, the remaining ~ 90 % of the year is close(r) to the tier one tiered rate ( ~ $0.20/kWh) take T.O.U.. But at that low usage, a PV system might be difficult to bring in at a cost effective price.

All this may be moot however, if/when T.O.U. peak times shift from the current late morning/late afternoon to the 4 P.M. to 9 P.M. time slot as proposed. Doing so will pretty much knock the crap out of NEM buyback rates and put another nail in the NEM coffin with respect to the sweet spot (~ $0.49/kWh net) buyback rate for T.O.U. NEM.

FWIW, I'm probably stayin' on tiered rates, with 16+ years to go on NEM 1, unless/until the rules change, which is probably a distinct possibility, and continuing to look for ways to reduce usage.

[CharlieEscCA]

It looks like it now picked up the last 24 hours of temp and voltage. Temp peaked yesterday at 145.6.

Thanks for the "how" to enable it details.

[sensij]

Ok, I changed it. Hopefully I have it right

I turned off Energy and turned on temperature and voltage.

What I'm not sure is I have a consumption meter (the WattNode) and left this as "energy" enabled.

Looks like you got it right, I'm seeing the data on your system now (146.3 deg peak inverter temp today). My inverter hit 144 deg today, too.

I wonder if Wattnode is why you are limited to 10-15 minute data? Or are you using the low bandwidth cellular card?

By setting the PVOutput status interval to 5 min, you are oversampling the data source, which is why you get all those steps in the chart and repeating values in the table.