How have other done DIY solar systems? State say NEC 690 prohibits this.

[foo1bar]

The electrical inspector here is an independent state electrical inspector who does electrical inspections for eleven different cities. I'm not sure who has the final say on electrical permits. I think I would have an awful hard time getting the the city to overrule the electrical inspector's decision.

Is there a plan reviewer that's separate from the inspector?
It looks like MN is a bit different than what I've seen in other states.
where I live you go to the permit office, file the plans and the permit application, and that's when you say who's doing the work.
Then the inspector checks that things were done right.

Homeowners are allowed to do any electrical work on their house except solar.

What's the statute/law that allows that?
Look it up and see if you can use that to convince Mr. Inspector.
ie. "Hey Mr. Hucky, I'm looking at the owner-occupied statute and it seems to me that it allows me to do the work for installing a photovoltaic system. "

Be polite, respectful, and if you can think of a good way to give him an out so he can save face, give him that out.

[reader2580]

Is there a plan reviewer that's separate from the inspector?
It looks like MN is a bit different than what I've seen in other states.
where I live you go to the permit office, file the plans and the permit application, and that's when you say who's doing the work.
Then the inspector checks that things were done right.

I had called the inspector during his office hours to ask a question about how he interprets one section of the code. After I asked my question he then said I don't think the state allows homeowners to do Solar PV systems themselves. He said he would call me back. He called me back about 15 minutes later and said that NEC 690 requires solar PV to be installed by qualified persons only so a homeowner can't do it. It didn't seem like he actually called anyone at the state and it was before business hours anyhow.

[Sunking]

I had called the inspector during his office hours to ask a question about how he interprets one section of the code. After I asked my question he then said I don't think the state allows homeowners to do Solar PV systems themselves. He said he would call me back. He called me back about 15 minutes later and said that NEC 690 requires solar PV to be installed by qualified persons only so a homeowner can't do it. It didn't seem like he actually called anyone at the state and it was before business hours anyhow.

That is complete BS. Ask him to cite what paragraph says that. He will not be able to because it does not exist. No article in the NEC says that plain and simple. I sat on the NEC code panel 9 for 7 years.

Only Local AHJ decides that. Some places you can, and some places you cannot. It is a political decision period. AHJ has the authority to amend NEC, they can modify, reject, add, or accept any of the NEC code they want.

After 40 years of building residential, commercial, and industrial electrical systems in nearly every major city in the USA I learned what every one in the trade nows, There are two golden rules when dealing with the AHJ.

1. The Inspector is always right.
2. If the Inspector is in error refer to rule 1.

Nothing in the NEC prohibits HO to do the work themselves. That is a local decision, not NEC. So if you ask him to cite the paragraph, he will not be able to answer that. If HO's are not allowed to do their own electrical work will be in Local codes.

[tyab]

I'm in CA in a rural area. This jurisdiction does allow owner installed solar - you must be the homeowner - but you must have a licensed electrical contractor to be on your permit. That electrician is then suppose to inspect all work prior to you the owner installer calling for the AHJ to inspect. Fortunately for me I have a good relationship with the electrician that wired our home when it was built in 2005 (custom) so I called him and he had no problem with using his name as long as I paid him by the hour plus service call fee to inspect the work. He came out one time when I was getting close to be ready for final - swapped out the main service panel breaker for me (I don't have any PPE [personal protection equipment] so I figured that was money well spent). He looked at the work I did by the service panel (safety switch, raceway) and said I appear to know what I'm doing and following all code - gave me a bill for $150 bucks and left after 30mins. He did not bother walking down the steep grade to the solar site - he has a lot of joint pain and simply asked me if the job I did down there was to the same level as the service panel work. I told him what I did, all EMT conduit and no above ground PVC, described all the grounding, stainless hardware, blah blah blah and that was good enough for him. On the inspection I had no issues, AHJ did look at everything and said it was all good. Now that said - if had lied to that electrician and had done a poor job that was flagged during inspection I know for a fact that it would be impossible for me to get any local electrician to ever come to my home again - small town word of mouth. Thus I felt an obligation as owner-installer to do the best job possible and cut no corners. About a week after the final inspection I got a call from that electrician saying he heard I did a good job and thanked me.

[foo1bar]

I'm in CA in a rural area. This jurisdiction does allow owner installed solar - you must be the homeowner - but you must have a licensed electrical contractor to be on your permit.

Probably you legally aren't required. Probably CA section 7044 (aka "owner-builder" exemption) means you actually can do it yourself.
BUT
refer back to the rules above:

1. The Inspector is always right.
2. If the Inspector is in error refer to rule 1.

IOW - even if you'd probably be legally in the right I think you're better off doing it the way you did.

Now I don't think it's quite as bad as those rules imply.
BUT it's much better to try to get along with the guy that's judging your work.

[reader2580]

That is complete BS. Ask him to cite what paragraph says that. He will not be able to because it does not exist. No article in the NEC says that plain and simple. I sat on the NEC code panel 9 for 7 years.

NEC 690.4(C) states "The installation of all equipment and associated wiring and interconnections shall be performed only by qualified persons.". The inspector apparently believes this means only a licensed electrician can do the work. The inspector cited NEC 690 when he told me that homeowners cannot install solar themselves.

One other note: I was able to get my order of solar panels put on hold until I get this figured out. They had not shipped yet.

[Sunking]

NEC 690.4(C) states "The installation of all equipment and associated wiring and interconnections shall be performed only by qualified persons.". The inspector apparently believes this means only a licensed electrician can do the work. The inspector cited NEC 690 when he told me that homeowners cannot install solar themselves.

One other note: I was able to get my order of solar panels put on hold until I get this figured out. They had not shipped yet.

You left out the next paragraph. The Informational Notes. Article 100 definitions of Qualified Persons:

One who has skills in constructions and received safety training:

That does not exclude HO's. It does not say "shall be an Electrical Contractor". Thousands of HO's have installed Solar Systems.

But to the point the two Golden Rules.

1. Inspector is always right
2. If Inspector is in error, refer to rule 1.

[tyab]

And Article 100 defines Qualified Person as:

"One who has skills and knowledge related to the construction and operation of the electrical equipment and installations and has received safety training to recognize and avoid the hazards involved.

Informational Note: Refer to NFPA 70E-2012 Standard for Electrical Safety in the Workplace, for electrical safety training requirements."

This with 690.4(C) is going to be hard to get around unless there is some state and local exemption that helps you in your jurisdiction if the AHJ is sticking to that.

[reader2580]

You left out the next paragraph. The Informational Notes. Article 100 definitions of Qualified Persons:



That does not exclude HO's. It does not say "shall be an Electrical Contractor". Thousands of HO's have installed Solar Systems.

But to the point the two Golden Rules.

1. Inspector is always right
2. If Inspector is in error, refer to rule 1.

Since the inspector has the final word what am I going to do, take the inspector to court? It would probably take a year or more to get through the court system and by time it was all done I would have spent as much on a lawyer and court costs as just hiring a solar installer to do the project.

Article 100 has the following definition of a qualified person: Qualified Person. One who has the skills and knowledge related to the construction and operation of the electrical equipment and installations and has received safety training to recognize and avoid the hazards involved. Informational Note: Refer to NFPA 70E-2012, Standard for Electrical Safety in the Workplace, for electrical safety training requirements.

I would not meet the requirements to be a qualified person since I have never received any safety training. The inspector could also argue that I don't have the skills or knowledge because I have never done solar before.

[tyab]

Maybe foo1bar but when I went to turn in my initial permit the first question asked by the building department was "who is your electrical contractor?" and their name, phone number, and license number are part of the permit. Maybe I could have made a stink about it but I already was told by one of the AHJ's (we are both early morning swimmers at the local high school pool) that I had to have this for the permit. And you may be correct since the actual form I filled out did not have a field on it for this information - I gave it verbally when handing in the permit to the local field office and it was on the permit I received from them. We are an hour from the main county center and the county building department has a local field office that services the mountain area - two guys run the counter and paperwork and two inspectors. But we are side tracking the OP's thread

I'm not sure what the OP can do in his case. Maybe downsize the system to afford it from a licensed contractor or just eat the contractor margin. At least if you own the system you are eligible for that fed tax credit.

[Sunking]

Since the inspector has the final word what am I going to do, take the inspector to court? It would probably take a year or more to get through the court system and by time it was all done I would have spent as much on a lawyer and court costs as just hiring a solar installer to do the project.

Article 100 has the following definition of a qualified person: Qualified Person. One who has the skills and knowledge related to the construction and operation of the electrical equipment and installations and has received safety training to recognize and avoid the hazards involved. Informational Note: Refer to NFPA 70E-2012, Standard for Electrical Safety in the Workplace, for electrical safety training requirements.

I would not meet the requirements to be a qualified person since I have never received any safety training. The inspector could also argue that I don't have the skills or knowledge because I have never done solar before.

Your Inspector is just protecting his buddies (contractors) and himself. Plain and simple local politics. He has been bought and paid for. Like I said and many others have told you thousands of home owners have installed their own Grid Tied System. They pulled permits and passed inspections. It is legal Racketeering when the goberment does it for whatever reason. Is your area pro union?

You are right, not a damn thing you can do about it. Your Inspector will not allow it and is protecting contractors. How do they get away with it. Real simple in the name of Public Safety. DIY's should not be pretending to be electricians taking food and money out of contractors mouths and pockets. . When an inspector signs off on a job, and if something happens the city can be held liable if an insurance or fire investigation finds something was not up to code if the inspector over looked of missed something. When you use a licensed contractor and passes inspection, the Insurance carrier can go after both the city and the contractor who did the work. Not only the insurance company but also the survivors like say a fireman who fell through your burning roof and was killed. Or your neighbor who has smoke damage and a yard tore up.

The code is not the reason preventing you from doing the work. Now where does it say you SHALL BE a licensed contractor. You do not understand the wording of the code. Your Inspector just does not want you doing the work and using the non descriptive language of the code to do whatever he wants. It is written that way to allow them to do that. If this is a small community I bet he is also an EC. That is how it works.

[reader2580]

Your Inspector is just protecting his buddies (contractors) and himself. Plain and simple local politics. He has been bought and paid for. Like I said and many others have told you thousands of home owners have installed their own Grid Tied System. They pulled permits and passed inspections. It is legal Racketeering when the goberment does it for whatever reason. Is your area pro union?

You are right, not a damn thing you can do about it. Your Inspector will not allow it and is protecting contractors. How do they get away with it. Real simple in the name of Public Safety. DIY's should not be pretending to be electricians taking food and money out of contractors mouths and pockets. . When an inspector signs off on a job, and if something happens the city can be held liable if an insurance or fire investigation finds something was not up to code if the inspector over looked of missed something. When you use a licensed contractor and passes inspection, the Insurance carrier can go after both the city and the contractor who did the work. Not only the insurance company but also the survivors like say a fireman who fell through your burning roof and was killed. Or your neighbor who has smoke damage and a yard tore up.

The electrical inspector has not prevented me from doing my own electrical work in the past. I already did two major electrical projects on my house that were fully permitted with zero issues. It is only for solar that has there been an issue.

I live in a city on the fringes of a large metro area. I am pretty sure the inspector is full time as he does electrical inspections for eleven cities. The last time I had an inspection done a different guy showed up and he said the normal inspector was too busy so he asked him to do my inspection.

I'm very tempted to just go to city hall and get my permit and see what happens. The city has always just issued electrical permits on the spot when I have obtained them previously.

[J.P.M.]

The electrical inspector has not prevented me from doing my own electrical work in the past. I already did two major electrical projects on my house that were fully permitted with zero issues. It is only for solar that has there been an issue.

I live in a city on the fringes of a large metro area. I am pretty sure the inspector is full time as he does electrical inspections for eleven cities. The last time I had an inspection done a different guy showed up and he said the normal inspector was too busy so he asked him to do my inspection.

I'm very tempted to just go to city hall and get my permit and see what happens. The city has always just issued electrical permits on the spot when I have obtained them previously.

You may well get a permit. The inspection is largely a separate matter.

[Sunking]

I'm very tempted to just go to city hall and get my permit and see what happens. The city has always just issued electrical permits on the spot when I have obtained them previously.

Do it. But you can bet the Inspector will go over it with a fine tooth comb and nick pick you to death if you get the permit. Each return trip requires an additional inspection fee. He can make life hard on you just for grins and giggles.

The code is written in such a way to give local AHJ any interpretation they want to use. Example Article 100 does not use the word SHALL or Permitted. Nor does 690.4(C). Bear in mind the code panel committees are made up of a broad spectrum of the Industry. You have Engineers from manufacturing, utilities, Electricians, Fire Departments, City Code Enforcements, and Insurance carriers. If it were up to Electricians article 100 definition for Qualified Person would be Shall Be A Licensed Electricians, then no one would be allowed to do any work if the AHJ accepted the code as written. But guess what? Local Jurisdictions can amend any of the code they want to fit their interpretations.

A great example is AFCI breakers. Insurance carriers wanted them. Eaton came up with the first units before any other manufacture. So they lobbied the Insurance Carriers, Fire Departments, City Code Enforcement, agencies and Electricians to push it through to a vote. It was a hell of a fight. Manufactures, Engineers, and some Electricians through a fit. They are very expensive. Electricians gave in because it makes them mo money. Manufactures gave in eventually because they knew it would make them mo money eventually when they could come up with one. Eaton was ecstatic, they were the only one who made them at the time. So at vote time, AFCI had a minor majority and it got put in Shall Be Used. Then reality hit Code Enforcement agencies and many Jurisdictions amended them out of the code. The expense was unbearable going from $10 to $50 breakers plus mark up. It took up to 3 code cycles before most Jurisdictions now requirement and the rest of manufactures caught up and competition brought the prices down. The first one were full of bugs with false trips and over priced. Eaton made a fortune.

It is politics. 690 has a very dangerous provision today and will be removed. John Wiles tried to bring the cost down on solar installs and allows Isolated Ground Rods and an EGC to be used as a GEC. Just about every AHJ amended it out of the code because it will get people killed and burn down homes.

[reader2580]

It is politics. 690 has a very dangerous provision today and will be removed. John Wiles tried to bring the cost down on solar installs and allows Isolated Ground Rods and an EGC to be used as a GEC. Just about every AHJ amended it out of the code because it will get people killed and burn down homes.

Are you talking about 690.47 (D) that requires a grounding electrode at the array?