New NEM 2.0+ Agreements

[reader2580]

That IS greed, just an example of proposing a RIDICULOUS rate, so that when the regulators attack it, it only
gets dropped to simply EXTREME OVERCHARGING. Guess you could turn off EVERYTHING for those hours;
shouldn't have to do such things.

The time of day metering plan is entirely optional at this time. It is actually called an electric vehicle plan. Your electric vehicle would need to take a lot of power at 7.6 cents per KWh to balance out the 45 cents per KWh from 4 pm to 8 pm. A co-worker had this plan to charge his Chevy Volt, but he would actually turn off his A/C from 4 PM to 8 PM which is the hottest time of day and the time everyone is home.

My electric cooperative is currently installing smart meters. They say it will reduce operating costs to pay for them as they still have meter readers. They also mentioned new rate plans once the meters are in. I understand that buying peaking power is the most expensive electricity there is, but most people will just suck it up and pay the higher bill instead of cutting back and suffering with the heat or whatever. Electricity should be almost free outside of peak time if you're going to charge 45 cents per KWh.

Battery storage will become a better option financially if peak rates go sky high.

[J.P.M.]

A lot of people would still think I use entirely too much electricity. I run my A/C nonstop from around June 1st into September. I set my A/C at 75 degrees and don't change the temperature when not at home. The A/C would take forever to drop the temperature around 5 pm when I get home. I plan to at least increase the temperature during the morning this upcoming summer. I do set backs with heat, but I use natural gas that can recover fairly quickly.

To those people who think your use is profligate, I'd suggest they may gain some insight by considering that the average U.S. detached, single family housing blows through about 12, 000 or so kWh/yr. If you're in N.CA and/or near the coast, I can understand why your A/C use is less, particularly with a 75 F. set point. BTW, a setback thermostat might be something to consider and set it to activated cooling at, say, 3 hrs. before you get home. Just sayin'.

[Dave1478]

You mind sharing any links or details of this? I tried following the latest info but didn't find this, only push back from the PUC against the utlities. I seriously doubt they will change the existing decisions that are in place for residential 1.0 and 2.0 through the next few years. Doesn't mean it won't change with a new governor and new puc appointments.

PGE Link Below, They actually are still doing the 12 month true up, but they are calling it a net surplus compensation.

http://www.pge.com/includes/docs/pdfs/mybusiness/services/nonpge/generateownpower/netenergymetering/standardnem/Form_79-1151A.pdf

Now MID- Modesto Irrigation District has moved to monthly Bills and NO roll overs of surplus allowed. All surplus energy is theirs! Link Below, I had to call them and speak directly too them to confirm this but as it states it is monthly only. And they of course did not want to say it directly but it is monthly, no carry over, and they did tell me nem 1.0 is far better than 2.0.

http://www.mid.org/tariffs/Rates/NET_METERING_2.pdf

[reader2580]

To those people who think your use is profligate, I'd suggest they may gain some insight by considering that the average U.S. detached, single family housing blows through about 12, 000 or so kWh/yr. If you're in N.CA and/or near the coast, I can understand why your A/C use is less, particularly with a 75 F. set point. BTW, a setback thermostat might be something to consider and set it to activated cooling at, say, 3 hrs. before you get home. Just sayin'.

I am in Minnesota and my body can't handle the humidity in the summer. There are days it doesn't make any sense to have the A/C on, but the days with 70+ dew points make up for it. I already have the programmable thermostat, but I haven't been using it for A/C. It seems like it takes forever for the house to cool down plus the power company can cycle A/C if power use is too high. I plan to start using it this summer.

The KWh consumed by this house used to be out of this world. Electric usage for a year was over 50,000 KWh due to electric baseboard heating. I'll pay off the $20,000 to add forced air natural gas heat and central A/C in 10 years or less.

[Dave1478]

You mind sharing any links or details of this? I tried following the latest info but didn't find this, only push back from the PUC against the utlities. I seriously doubt they will change the existing decisions that are in place for residential 1.0 and 2.0 through the next few years. Doesn't mean it won't change with a new governor and new puc appointments.

PGE- Nem 2.0 Still has true up, but says it surpluses are typically zeroed out. But below has the Net surplus compensation (NSC) which is the payout. Link:

http://www.pge.com/includes/docs/pdfs/mybusiness/services/nonpge/generateownpower/netenergymetering/standardnem/Form_79-1151A.pdf

MID- No carry over, no true up, monthly now with 2.0. Link : http://www.mid.org/tariffs/Rates/NET_METERING_2.pdf

I typed this out once and I have no idea where it went, hope this posts.

[Dave1478]

You mind sharing any links or details of this? I tried following the latest info but didn't find this, only push back from the PUC against the utlities. I seriously doubt they will change the existing decisions that are in place for residential 1.0 and 2.0 through the next few years. Doesn't mean it won't change with a new governor and new puc appointments.

You mind sharing any links or details of this? I tried following the latest info but didn't find this, only push back from the PUC against the utlities. I seriously doubt they will change the existing decisions that are in place for residential 1.0 and 2.0 through the next few years. Doesn't mean it won't change with a new governor and new puc appointments.

PGE- Nem 2.0 Still has true up, but says it surpluses are typically zeroed out. But below has the Net surplus compensation (NSC) which is the payout. Link:

http://www.pge.com/includes/docs/pdfs/mybusiness/services/nonpge/generateownpower/netenergymetering/standardnem/Form_79-1151A.pdf

MID- No carry over, no true up, monthly now with 2.0. Link : http://www.mid.org/tariffs/Rates/NET_METERING_2.pdf

I typed this out once and I have no idea where it went, hope this posts.

[J.P.M.]

I am in Minnesota and my body can't handle the humidity in the summer. There are days it doesn't make any sense to have the A/C on, but the days with 70+ dew points make up for it. I already have the programmable thermostat, but I haven't been using it for A/C. It seems like it takes forever for the house to cool down plus the power company can cycle A/C if power use is too high. I plan to start using it this summer.

The KWh consumed by this house used to be out of this world. Electric usage for a year was over 50,000 KWh due to electric baseboard heating. I'll pay off the $20,000 to add forced air natural gas heat and central A/C in 10 years or less.

My apologies for confusing your location with another's.

Congrads on the low use. That it takes a while to cool the house off is perhaps due to a properly (that is, not oversized) A/C. BTW, were it grossly oversized, it wouldn't handle lowering the dew point as effectively as a properly sized unit, and thus do less for your sensibilities regarding high dew points. As for electric resistance heating, the people in MN w/ electric resistance heating who don't get it replaced deserve what they get, in spite of the big $$ retrofit.

[cebury]

PGE- Nem 2.0 Still has true up, but says it surpluses are typically zeroed out. But below has the Net surplus compensation (NSC) which is the payout. Link:
http://www.pge.com/includes/docs/pdf...m_79-1151A.pdf

MID- No carry over, no true up, monthly now with 2.0. Link : http://www.mid.org/tariffs/Rates/NET_METERING_2.pdf
I typed this out once and I have no idea where it went, hope this posts.

Thanks. And neither Nem1 or 2 has changed since adoption a year ago Jan 2016. Scared me for a sec there. I'd wager money they don't change Nem until proceedings are scheduled to begin in 2019 for future rates. But the utilities actions a few months ago were trying to get the PUC to reverse it's Jan decision by saying it was illegal, lol. They are still considering taking it to court.

The "typically zeroed out" comment refers to annual excess when you are a Not a net generation exporter. If your total kwh exported > imported you are a net surplus and get reimbursed at the rates they calculated. The big 3 CA POCOs have to abide by the agreement, it doesn't surprise me smaller municipals follow their own path.

[tyab]

Lots of good discussion here. I recently finished my system and I missed the 1.0 5% threshold by about 2 weeks. Thus I am a brand new NEM 2.0 customer with PG&E in region R.
According to SAM it pushed my ROI up by about 2.2 years compared to the super solar friendly E-6 plan I was on before. We will see over time how accurate SAM is. That said I did get my first bill from PG&E - it covered the leftover of my E-6 and had 12 days of ETOUA region R. For those 12 days I had 4 days of great sun and 8 days of crud (rain/clouds/more rain blah blah blah). PG&E does a 12 month rollup but the monthly bill does show where you are. So far on a per day basis (and this is only based on the 12 days of the new rate) my PG&E is tracking at 90% lower than what I had as a non-solar on E6 - with most of the benefit coming from those 4 days of great sun.

According to SAM if I had not been on E6 but on something similar to most non-solar folks like E1 the ROI difference was about a year. Of course everyone's benefit will be unique to their power usage and rates and system design but for me I'm happy even though what I have is not as solar friendly as before - over time I will still have my return.

I believe that the solar industry will have to adapt with equipment that has lower installation cost. Perfect example, I used Enphase. Personally I felt that custom Enphase cable was time consuming to work with for a ground mount that was running perpendicular to the rails - it sure seemed that everything they discussed about cable management was all about parallel runs. And just the term cable management - the industry needs to come up with ways so there is no management issues - to save on installation costs. Costs are going to have to come down to allow the contractor to still make a viable profit and to make the ROI attractive to the customer.

But that said, over Christmas I was talking with one of my brother-in-laws. And all he could say is why was I not using the Tesla tiles and battery. Then he pulled up all the marketing material on his phone and kept going on about how *should* have gone full Tesla and I had just thrown my $ away on my system. I tried to talk about ROI on batteries but it was a lost cause - he had drunk the cool-aid and facts did not matter. So I just agreed with him to make him happy. Is he a typical customer? I don't know...

[bcroe]

Here, most of the energy is collected in the best half year; the winter makes a much smaller contribution. That
more due to clouds than to shorter days. For now, batteries are for when there is no other way. My grid tie is
a 100% efficient, infinite capacity, free, zero maintenance "battery". Real batteries do not compute. Bruce Roe

[maximizese]

I don't have a PV system yet, but I can still get in on NEM 1.0 through SCE. 3 weeks ago, we bought a used 2013 Fiat 500e and our electricity bill will go from an average of $55 a month to $120 as our increased electricity usage will pretty much be billed at tier 2 on the standard plan. We will be moving to a TOU plan A on Feb 10th which will give us a ~$27 a month credit and will charge us $.13/kWh from 10pm-8am, $.44 from 2pm-8pm, and $.29 any other time. Under NEM 1.0, SCE will credit me at the same corresponding rate which seems fair to me. It's my understanding that NEM locks you in for 20 years, but the utility companies can change their rates and time tables around.

I'm pretty flexible with my energy usage and when I do most of my activity, but I know flexibility is not always an option for most families. My guess is that utility companies will continue to seek out a steady revenue stream, encourage subscribers to smooth out energy demands, and will increase their efforts into energy storage. With the proliferation of EVs and solar, I wouldn't be surprised to see daytime rates switch becoming off-peak since that's peak generation time. I read an article that some regions in Italy have done this as a result of the PV revolution.

[J.P.M.]

With the proliferation of EVs and solar, I wouldn't be surprised to see daytime rates switch becoming off-peak since that's peak generation time. I read an article that some regions in Italy have done this as a result of the PV revolution.

Maybe not that drastic in the U.S., and/or at least not right away, but anything is possible. Those considering PV and EV's for their future might think about the future of T.O.U. rates and times and the things that drive those rates and times, and look at them from the POCO's side of the table and perspective before getting too fixed on the idea of locked in and large differentials between on/off peak rates. Most things tend to regress toward the mean.