SunPower vs LG System?

[SunEagle]

Maybe both. It seems the price gap has narrowed: the O.P.'s quotes show SP at only $3.66 per watt vs $3.24 for the LG. Or maybe prices really have dropped that much. Can SP survive? Can anyone survive? If LG or any other conglomerate for that matter wanted to they could jettison their solar business in a heartbeat. Will Total have more patience with SP? Who really knows?

I agree. Hard to forecast anything concerning solar pv companies. Hopefully things will get better and more stable.

[solar pete]

I find it interesting they are closing their Philippines plant (they dont have the tariff that the Chinese panels do) and something that the President elect said comes to mind when he was talking about Apple bringing their production back to the USA and another time said any company that closed up in the USA to Manufacture overseas would be in for a rude surprise. ...Hmmm me smells a trade war brewing and that my friends would be great news for manufactures of Solar Panels and Inverters in the States. Would probably push up prices a little but bring back manufacturing jobs.....pure wild speculation ...SP shares are up...maybe they know something.

[SunEagle]

I find it interesting they are closing their Philippines plant (they dont have the tariff that the Chinese panels do) and something that the President elect said comes to mind when he was talking about Apple bringing their production back to the USA and another time said any company that closed up in the USA to Manufacture overseas would be in for a rude surprise. ...Hmmm me smells a trade war brewing and that my friends would be great news for manufactures of Solar Panels and Inverters in the States. Would probably push up prices a little but bring back manufacturing jobs.....pure wild speculation ...SP shares are up...maybe they know something.

That could be the plan. It would be nice to see more US manufactures.

Their stock price probably went up because they shed some overheard & expenses so maybe they look more financially attractive.

[cambyses]

Their stock went up probably because shareholders heard that I am about to sign the contract

Thanks to solar contractors trying to book revenue before the end of the year, I managed to get a bit more discount bringing down the premium with SunPower 360W system to less than 6.5% compared to LG 320W. At that price difference, and considering better SunPower warranty, and better area efficiency on my roof (i.e., fewer number of panels for similar power), I think I will be signing the contract for the S.P. system...

Thank you again everyone for your comments on this thread...

[J.P.M.]

Their stock went up probably because shareholders heard that I am about to sign the contract

Thanks to solar contractors trying to book revenue before the end of the year, I managed to get a bit more discount bringing down the premium with SunPower 360W system to less than 6.5% compared to LG 320W. At that price difference, and considering better SunPower warranty, and better area efficiency on my roof (i.e., fewer number of panels for similar power), I think I will be signing the contract for the S.P. system...

Thank you again everyone for your comments on this thread...

That's 6.5 % over the $3.24/Watt LG price ?

[cambyses]

That's 6.5 % over the $3.24/Watt LG price ?

Yes, i.e., only about $0.21/Watt premium for SP, though I did add two more panels. So I will still end up paying more than the $29K I'd mentioned in my first post.

[Ian S]

Yes, i.e., only about $0.21/Watt premium for SP, though I did add two more panels. So I will still end up paying more than the $29K I'd mentioned in my first post.

That sounds like an attractive deal. Curious what the monitoring system/software is like for those SP microinverter systems?

[emartin00]

I find it interesting they are closing their Philippines plant (they dont have the tariff that the Chinese panels do) and something that the President elect said comes to mind when he was talking about Apple bringing their production back to the USA and another time said any company that closed up in the USA to Manufacture overseas would be in for a rude surprise. ...Hmmm me smells a trade war brewing and that my friends would be great news for manufactures of Solar Panels and Inverters in the States. Would probably push up prices a little but bring back manufacturing jobs.....pure wild speculation ...SP shares are up...maybe they know something.

I think you may be a bit optimistic. Cheaper panel prices are the reason solar keeps expanding. If we tax foreign panels, and cause the price to go up, demand will start to decrease. Ya, you might get a factory or 2 in the US, but the investment needed to move that kind of production to the US is massive. The Chinese companies will just continue selling to the rest of the world, and laugh at our misfortune.

[bdd4]

Hello cambyses: I just self installed a 4.5KW system which consists of 14 LG320 watt panels, 14 Enphase microinverters, 1 Enpahse Envoy Communications Unit. Despite SP's higher power panels and not a significant package price difference I am turned off by the integrated panel and inverter item. If either the panel or inverter fails both are lost. With the LG package, if either item fails or the panel is damaged by a stone strike etc (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_9oZGqLf87A) only one is lost. Secondly, if using an LG panel many other panels can replace it but with SP, likely only theirs is the replacement.

[cambyses]

I am turned off by the integrated panel and inverter item. If either the panel or inverter fails both are lost. With the LG package, if either item fails or the panel is damaged by a stone strike etc ([/B]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_9oZGqLf87A) only one is lost. Secondly, if using an LG panel many other panels can replace it but with SP, likely only theirs is the replacement.

Well, "integrated" does not mean that the microinverter is somehow embedded into the panel or something. It is still a separate microinverter box and it just happens to be from the same manufacturer, installed at the factory, and warrantied by the same manufacturer. So, say, if the panel is damaged, the microinverter may still be fine, and vice versa. It is true, however, that if either the panel or the microinverter fails, I would have to call the same company (SunPower) to come and repair/replace either the panel or the mircoinverter under warranty (assuming they are still around at that time!). In regards to your second point, it may be true that mix and matching other panels with LG might be easier than SP, but I am not sure.

[cambyses]

That sounds like an attractive deal. Curious what the monitoring system/software is like for those SP microinverter systems?

I don't know for sure, but I have heard SunPower's monitoring software is actually one of the better ones out there. They have a little web-based demo here: https://monitor.us.sunpower.com/#/dashboard

[bdd4]

Hello cambyses: I agree that SP will have to service a panel/inverter failure so failure would not be an issue. As to whether any company will be around when warranty service is required, none of us can claim with certainty that "my" company will be there. SP's 22.5% efficiency claim is great, best I've seen so your system should be spurting out some good numbers. Finally, I design circuits, know electronics pretty well and am certain a number of other panels can be paired with Enphase microinverters.

[cambyses]

Hello cambyses: I agree that SP will have to service a panel/inverter failure so failure would not be an issue. As to whether any company will be around when warranty service is required, none of us can claim with certainty that "my" company will be there. SP's 22.5% efficiency claim is great, best I've seen so your system should be spurting out some good numbers. Finally, I design circuits, know electronics pretty well and am certain a number of other panels can be paired with Enphase microinverters.

In regards to 22.5% efficiency, yes, it is great. But it is really NOT relevant to the actual power output. When a panel is rated, say, at 360W DC, it will output 360W DC, regardless of efficiency. In other words, the efficiency is already accounted for in the output power rating of the panel. What that means is that a 360W panel with 22.2% efficiency will just be a bit smaller than a 360W panel with, say, 20% efficiency, while both will output the same amount. So the better efficiency for S.P. will basically translate to area efficiency and thus potentially fewer panels for the same size system. That was still important for me since my roof area was rather limited for the system size I was considering. In regards to pairing Enphase with a number of panels from different manufacturers, yes, absolutely, I am sure that can be done. The question is if the inverter on SP 360W fails, is there any other micorinverter in the market that could replace the one installed at factory by SP? The answer may be No today, but I don't see why a 3rd party microinverter could not be designed to replace it in future. And finally, believe it or not, I happen to have been designing communication IC's too for the past 17 years

[Ian S]

I don't know for sure, but I have heard SunPower's monitoring software is actually one of the better ones out there. They have a little web-based demo here: https://monitor.us.sunpower.com/#/dashboard

I have the dashboard for my SP system but I rarely use it except on my smartphone. Instead, I have access Sunpowermonitor.com which provides much more data (including inverter info) with granularity down to five minute intervals. I don't know if that monitoring is now generally available or not.

[barron]

Cambyses, if you don't mind me asking who did you sign with? I tried private messaging you, but I can't seem to do it?