Will Socal Edison cancel NEM if PV produces over 120% of yearly power consumption?

[GoldenDragon]

Socal Edison won't connect you to Net Energy Metering if your solar panels are expected to generate more than 120% of the power you actually use per year. Does anyone know what they'll do if your system does generate over 120% year after year? I've searched all over their site and done a search here and on Google and can't find anything, so I'm guessing they won't do anything, but I wondered if anyone's heard of someone being dropped from NEM for overproduction?

[J.P.M.]

Socal Edison won't connect you to Net Energy Metering if your solar panels are expected to generate more than 120% of the power you actually use per year. Does anyone know what they'll do if your system does generate over 120% year after year? I've searched all over their site and done a search here and on Google and can't find anything, so I'm guessing they won't do anything, but I wondered if anyone's heard of someone being dropped from NEM for overproduction?

Did you call them and ask, or ask for direction to information yet ?

[GoldenDragon]

Did you call them and ask, or ask for direction to information yet ?

No, but I figure if it's not addressed in the help section of their web site, whatever random person answers at their call center is not going to know either, or they're going to give me their best guess. I would rather hear from anyone who's had problems with overproduction or from anyone who can point to a written answer to the question from SCE's documentation. I suppose the call center might be able to point me to that documentation, but I have low hope for that.

I've been looking at the signed contract:
12. TERM AND TERMINATION OF AGREEMENT:
12.1 This Agreement shall become effective when SCE issues written authorization to
interconnect the Generating Facility after receipt of all required documents and payments,
and this completed Agreement, and shall remain in effect thereafter from month to month
unless terminated by either Party on thirty (30) days’ prior written notice in accordance with
Section 11.
12.2 This Agreement shall terminate, without notice, upon: (a) termination of the electric
distribution service provided to Customer by SCE; or (b) changes to Customer’s electric load
which cause Customer to no longer satisfy all requirements of the definition of an Eligible
Customer-Generator, as set forth in Sections 2827(b)(4) or 2827.1(a) of the California Public
Utilities Code; or (c) termination of Customer’s NEM arrangements with its Electric Service
Provider, Community Choice Aggregator or Community Aggregator.

12.1 seems to say they can terminate NEM with 30 days notice for... I guess any reason?
12.2 says they can terminate without notice for specific reasons. I read Sections 2827(b)(4) or 2827.1(a) of the California Public
Utilities Code and it just defines the various meanings of "Eligible Customer-Generator". There didn't seem to be anything about overproduction.

[silversaver]

SEC only allow 100% coverage base on your last 12 months consumption. Even if your installer underestimating your solar production, SEC only pays you 3 to 4 cents per kWh you over generated.

If you apply NEM with oversizing system(too large), SCE more likely will turn down your application. If you really applying for 120% coverage and got approved(unlikely without any support for more power demand), then you are wasting your own money.

Don't be silly asking an unnecssary question. 20% Oversizing doesn't benefit you in SCE terr.

The answer is: If SEC approved your NEM application, they will not terminate your NEM with 20% over production annually because life style could change. They probably will only laught at you, that's it.

Educate yourself not to oversizing the solar if not needed is what you need to know.


PS. My friend bought an 10,000 sq ft home, without knowing his true usage he got himself a 20kW system commission since 2011. Guess what, he cannot even consume half of the solar output. He gets a check every year from SEC as a power donor. ROI? hmmm.....

[GoldenDragon]

PS. My friend bought an 10,000 sq ft home, without knowing his true usage he got himself a 20kW system commission since 2011. Guess what, he cannot even consume half of the solar output. He gets a check every year from SEC as a power donor. ROI? hmmm.....

That's the kind of info I wanted to know - what SCE actually does if you produce too much power, especially far too much power.

I have no problem buying a system that's too big and generating renewable power for the neighbors even if it doesn't save me the most money. In fact, that was my goal.

[J.P.M.]

No, but I figure if it's not addressed in the help section of their web site, whatever random person answers at their call center is not going to know either, or they're going to give me their best guess. I would rather hear from anyone who's had problems with overproduction or from anyone who can point to a written answer to the question from SCE's documentation. I suppose the call center might be able to point me to that documentation, but I have low hope for that.

I've been looking at the signed contract.

Id think dealing with the party you sign a contract with would be the one to ask questions of rather than a mostly anonymous source on some chat room. If you get blown off by the POCO stooges, start climbing up the chain of command and get, or see it in writing on POCO docs. No one here, as well intentioned and/or informed as some of us may be (and others of us just as abysmally ignorant BTW), have no skin in your game. Just sayin'.

FWIW, suit yourself but oversizing is very non cost effective in CA for most all residential applications at this time and likely to stay that way for the foreseeable future. Most folks who know this tend to self limit.

[solarix]

We have a similar condition here in Arizona where the official position is to not allow more than 125% of current usage. I think this is to maintain their monopoly status as a public utility. Can't condone competition you see. In actual practice, (I have only a couple of customers that may fall into this situation) I've never heard of our POCO hassling anyone over it. I know of one other installer that put in a 19kW system on his own house and foolishly brags about how the utility sends him checks. I'm still hoping the utility shuts him down. In general however, the ROI on offsetting anything more than about 90% of your usage is not good and aggravates the utilities with their hatred of Net Metering - but is sometimes done when a customer foresees needing more power due to wanting an EV or a pool or something. Worst case situation is your POCO may quit allowing Net Metering and everyone will have to install zero-export equipment to keep using their solar.

[silversaver]

That's the kind of info I wanted to know - what SCE actually does if you produce too much power, especially far too much power.

I have no problem buying a system that's too big and generating renewable power for the neighbors even if it doesn't save me the most money. In fact, that was my goal.

It is not you to decide, the boss is SCE. Your neighbors don't need your renewable energy, they pay their own bills.

[cebury]

I don't think it's such a silly question as stated above. Another post here, a while back, was of someone trying to seek help because his poco did just that: called him up and said you are overproducing and we are going to cancel the agreement. The advice around here was use up more electricity so he didn't overproduce any more. Suggestions like buying a Bitcoin mining machine, spa, etc.

Now that wasn't a CA poco and the big three are watched and regulated more than the smaller ones out there, so I doubt he has to worry about SCE doing that. But yeah, I'd ask here and call them too.

[Sunking]

Does anyone know what they'll do if your system does generate over 120% year after year?

Pretty stupid question don't you think?.

Allow me to me ask you what you would do if; I mailed you a $50 check on the 3rd of the every month out of the goodness of my big kind liberal heart.

I do not know what you would say, but I would say; "Thank you for your non-charity contribution adding to my profit margins. Have a nice day and again a great big

THANK YOU...........SUCKER".

Respectively

PT Barnum.

[J.P.M.]

One question or two I might ask the POCO: Since PV systems NEM eligibility goes with the system and not the owner, if I buy an existing home with an existing system and my annual usage is much less than the prior or original owner, does a 120 % rule apply ? and if so, how ?

[silversaver]

One question or two I might ask the POCO: Since PV systems NEM eligibility goes with the system and not the owner, if I buy an existing home with an existing system and my annual usage is much less than the prior or original owner, does a 120 % rule apply ? and if so, how ?

What are the odds to find a home with 120% overproduction with existing solar especially in SCE?

SCE will only allow 100% coverage unless you purchase a brand new home without annual usage, the max sizing is base on sq ft X2.

Thing happen unexpected, but not planning in advance for 120% overproduction. In SCE, that would a foolish act.

Other POCOs especially the ones pay you more $$$$ per kWh has limitation since POCO don't want you to become a power plant to generate profit. If you ever wanted to become a power plant, you need to apply all necessary licenses and permits.

The whole purpose of going solar is green energy/saving pollution from power plants, but not for individual seeking generate energy for profit.

[J.P.M.]

What are the odds to find a home with 120% overproduction with existing solar especially in SCE?

SCE will only allow 100% coverage unless you purchase a brand new home without annual usage, the max sizing is base on sq ft X2.

Thing happen unexpected, but not planning in advance for 120% overproduction. In SCE, that would a foolish act.

Other POCOs especially the ones pay you more $$$$ per kWh has limitation since POCO don't want you to become a power plant to generate profit. If you ever wanted to become a power plant, you need to apply all necessary licenses and permits.

The whole purpose of going solar is green energy/saving pollution from power plants, but not for individual seeking generate energy for profit.

I'm as big a fan of not oversizing systems as you're likely to find, but I'm not sure you got my point, or I'm missing yours.

By way of example: The people who previously owned my current home used about 15,000 kWh/yr., which is a bit above average for my neighborhood. They did not have PV.

BUT, if they DID and that system was sized for, say, an 80 % off set of THEIR load ~ = 12,000 kWh/yr., it would be grossly oversized for my annual usage which is ~ 6,700 kWh /yr., but which would go to something like 10,000 - 11,000 kWh if/when an EV is added.

My point: If a similar situation were to occur in SCE territory, would I, at some point, be discovered as the owner of a system that's > 120 % of my annual generation ? If so, would I be penalized ? Also, how is that situation any different in substance than oversizing to a likely but possibly unknown future load - family additions ? 1 or more EV's ? A pool ?

Not trying to be argumentative, just asking questions that also may help the OP if a call to the POCO is made and persistently followed.

[silversaver]

I'm as big a fan of not oversizing systems as you're likely to find, but I'm not sure you got my point, or I'm missing yours.

By way of example: The people who previously owned my current home used about 15,000 kWh/yr., which is a bit above average for my neighborhood. They did not have PV.

BUT, if they DID and that system was sized for, say, an 80 % off set of THEIR load ~ = 12,000 kWh/yr., it would be grossly oversized for my annual usage which is ~ 6,700 kWh /yr., but which would go to something like 10,000 - 11,000 kWh if/when an EV is added.

My point: If a similar situation were to occur in SCE territory, would I, at some point, be discovered as the owner of a system that's > 120 % of my annual generation ? If so, would I be penalized ? Also, how is that situation any different in substance than oversizing to a likely but possibly unknown future load - family additions ? 1 or more EV's ? A pool ?

Not trying to be argumentative, just asking questions that also may help the OP if a call to the POCO is made and persistently followed.

I did mention on previous post. My friend has a 20kW system and he consume less than half of its output since 2011. As I recall the solar produce about 32,000kWh per year and he consume less than 14,000kWh. No cancellation, but a small check every year.