SunPower vs. Hyundai vs. SolarCity

[Chevre]

Hello All,
I've been working through a lot of the discussions on the board and had a number of companies out for quotes on our all-electric home in New Mexico. At this point we're leaning heavily toward SolarCity. It feels like there's a fair amount of animosity out there toward the company, but the numbers make it difficult to go in another direction. Raw prices are on second line, 10yr financed w/tax credit on third (different companies, different interest rates, all 10yr). Here's where we are:

SolarCity:
4.5 kW
$/W: $3.64
Fin/W: $2.95

Hyundai System:
4.35 kW
$/W: $4.90
Fin/W: $3.31

SunPower B:
4.25 kW
$/W: $4.63
Fin/W: $3.94

SunPower A:
4.14 kW
$/W: $3.37
Fin/W: $4.10

Given SolarCity's lower sticker price and 2.99% interest rate (others use 4.0% credit union HELOC), the price gap between SolarCity and either of the two SunPower installers seems too big to overcome. We're not short on roof space and the warranties and production guarantees seem similar- especially as we don't plan on being in this house longer than 5 years. Am I missing some key factor? Thanks in advance for your thoughts!

[J.P.M.]

Sunpower's overpriced for what you get. As for SolarCity, I wouldn't let them on my property. Solar equipment is almost a commodity. Think long term, most bang for the buck, not necessarily low initial price, and pay a lot of attention to the quality/integrity/reputation of the vendor. See prior threads for reasoning.

[SunEagle]

I guess my question would be if you don't plant on being in the home longer than 5 years will any solar installation pay for itself especially if you have to finance it?

[Chevre]

Sunpower's overpriced for what you get. As for SolarCity, I wouldn't let them on my property. Solar equipment is almost a commodity. Think long term, most bang for the buck, not necessarily low initial price, and pay a lot of attention to the quality/integrity/reputation of the vendor. See prior threads for reasoning.

JPM,
Thanks for your thoughts. Could you elaborate on why you wouldn't let SC on your property- there must be something if in fact solar is a commodity. And if SunPower is too pricey are you suggesting that the Hyundai system would be the way to go?

[Chevre]

I guess my question would be if you don't plant on being in the home longer than 5 years will any solar installation pay for itself especially if you have to finance it?

Part of it it principle- we believe that now that it's essentially cost par with the delivered cost of our local coal power there's no defensible reason not to go that route. And I don't doubt that we could recoup the $5k balance when it comes time to sell the property.

[SunEagle]

Part of it it principle- we believe that now that it's essentially cost par with the delivered cost of our local coal power there's no defensible reason not to go that route. And I don't doubt that we could recoup the $5k balance when it comes time to sell the property.

Just be careful into believing that an existing solar pv system is worth anything to a home buyer. In some locations it may and in other locations it may be a detractor.

[billy1]

Ya, my neighbor financed $20,000 install through solarcity the beginning of this year, and just sold his house 2 weeks ago and the buying refused to compensate for the PV array! The buyer knew he could screw the seller since the house was on the market for a while. Just think of paying off your solar and not using it for 10 years!

[J.P.M.]

JPM,
Thanks for your thoughts. Could you elaborate on why you wouldn't let SC on your property- there must be something if in fact solar is a commodity. And if SunPower is too pricey are you suggesting that the Hyundai system would be the way to go?

You're welcome. I've elaborated my opinions about SolarCity several times in prior threads. I'm a bit worn out repeating them. If you look through my postings you'll find those opinions, the most recent epistle being from 10/26/2016.

I'm not suggesting Hyundai is good or not so good in the quality dept., just that Sunpower's overpriced for what you get and IMO, SolarCity is too leaky a vessel to put any faith in as a vendor.

You are considering spending what may be several tens of thousands of $$ on something you appear to know little about. If saving money is one reason/goal in your pursuit of PV, download a free but somewhat dated version of "Solar Power Your Home for Dummies", or spend $20 for a newer hardcopy. Knowledge is power. In this case the power to avoid getting screwed quite so badly by getting informed, knowing what you want and why, and knowing what to ask vendors. Then, do energy conservation measures before any solar devices - not after.

Because the equipment is mostly a commodity, spend more time considering vendor quality and think long term cost effectiveness, not necessarily first cost. Thinking only about low first cost is the errand of a fool. Get informed. Knowledge is power. Also polish your negotiating skills, and know and remember that everything is negotiable.

BTW, because solar will last a long time, if an installation is going on your roof, get the roof inspected/serviced as necessary. Cheap insurance.

[emartin00]

Have you presented the SolarCity quote to the Hyundai installer? They may be willing to come down a bit if they want your business.
SolarCity has a reputation for shady business, shoddy work and poorly trained workers.

[Chevre]

You're welcome. I've elaborated my opinions about SolarCity several times in prior threads. I'm a bit worn out repeating them. If you look through my postings you'll find those opinions, the most recent epistle being from 10/26/2016.

If you're referring to a communication issue between SolarCity, your HOA, and an elderly client I did see that before asking- but without specifics that sounds like any party could have been at fault. I'm not saying that there wasn't an issue, but I'm not clear on how it would apply to our situation.

I'm not suggesting Hyundai is good or not so good in the quality dept., just that Sunpower's overpriced for what you get and IMO, SolarCity is too leaky a vessel to put any faith in as a vendor.

I guess that's what I'm looking for- between the four quotes presented, I'm having a difficult time justifying the extra 28%/W for the preferred Sunpower installation or the additional 8% for Hyundai when it's not clear -beyond the installer/HoA communication cited above- where the community's dislike of SolarCity comes from. Particularly as it seems to be strong enough to recommend an unquantified panel and installer over a large company with deep pockets.

You are considering spending what may be several tens of thousands of $$ on something you appear to know little about. If saving money is one reason/goal in your pursuit of PV, download a free but somewhat dated version of "Solar Power Your Home for Dummies", or spend $20 for a newer hardcopy. Knowledge is power. In this case the power to avoid getting screwed quite so badly by getting informed, knowing what you want and why, and knowing what to ask vendors. Then, do energy conservation measures before any solar devices - not after.

That is good basic advice, but I don't know that it's relevant to this discussion. We did all of the work in advance, putting new windows, HE appliances, and a new roof all in place over the past 18mo. For lighting, heat/cooling, hot water, laundry, etc. we are at 7,200 KwH annually for two people. Considering that I work from home we're at the point of diminishing returns efficiency-wise.
The knowledge that we're seeking at this point is why SolarCity is so bad that people are willing to recommend 'anyone but them'- and here as in many places there really is no lower bound on 'anyone but.' Price is absolutely a factor, but with solar at or near par per delivered watt with coal, we feel that it is our responsibility to make the switch and have made the decision to do so.

As it sounds like the issue people have with SP is mainly related to their subcontactors' work -and that the panels and equipment are effectively interchangeable- I think that our next step will be to ask around locally to get a picture of how working with Sunpower and the competing bidders has been for others.

Thank you all for your time and thoughts.

[J.P.M.]

You're welcome. I've elaborated my opinions about SolarCity several times in prior threads. I'm a bit worn out repeating them. If you look through my postings you'll find those opinions, the most recent epistle being from 10/26/2016.

If you're referring to a communication issue between SolarCity, your HOA, and an elderly client I did see that before asking- but without specifics that sounds like any party could have been at fault. I'm not saying that there wasn't an issue, but I'm not clear on how it would apply to our situation.


I guess that's what I'm looking for- between the four quotes presented, I'm having a difficult time justifying the extra 28%/W for the preferred Sunpower installation or the additional 8% for Hyundai when it's not clear -beyond the installer/HoA communication cited above- where the community's dislike of SolarCity comes from. Particularly as it seems to be strong enough to recommend an unquantified panel and installer over a large company with deep pockets.



That is good basic advice, but I don't know that it's relevant to this discussion. We did all of the work in advance, putting new windows, HE appliances, and a new roof all in place over the past 18mo. For lighting, heat/cooling, hot water, laundry, etc. we are at 7,200 KwH annually for two people. Considering that I work from home we're at the point of diminishing returns efficiency-wise.
The knowledge that we're seeking at this point is why SolarCity is so bad that people are willing to recommend 'anyone but them'- and here as in many places there really is no lower bound on 'anyone but.' Price is absolutely a factor, but with solar at or near par per delivered watt with coal, we feel that it is our responsibility to make the switch and have made the decision to do so.

As it sounds like the issue people have with SP is mainly related to their subcontactors' work -and that the panels and equipment are effectively interchangeable- I think that our next step will be to ask around locally to get a picture of how working with Sunpower and the competing bidders has been for others.

Thank you all for your time and thoughts.

On SolarCity and my HOA: I believe that what is still only an opinion, based on my experience and also based on what I believe is a somewhat informed engineering opinion, is not uncommon with respect to SolarCity. Mine is a bit different in that as the guy on the HOA who reviews/monitors all the solar jobs in my HOA, - currently well over 100 and counting, of which more than a dozen were done by SolarCity, none of the SolarCity jobs, IMO, went smoothly, most with problems, and one of which the HOA had to force removal. Based on all that I'd not let SolarCity on my property.

Bottom lines for your situation:

With a decent vendor that has some experience and integrity - that is, not SolarCity - using most any known brand of equipment other than Sunpower - due mostly/solely to that brand being grossly overpriced for what you get, you will be OK. FWIW, my guess is a 4 kW system facing mostly south tilted at ~ 35 deg. or so will get you about 7,000 - 7,500 kWh/yr. Just watch the roof penetrations on a flat roof of the type common in NM.

Added nix on Sunpower: You have a 5 yr. timeline = short payback time. Also, forget about solar adding to resale value and be pleasantly surprised in 5 yrs. when you cash out.

I lived in NM for several years (87114). Probably one of the best solar climates on the planet, particularly in the winter. One other respectful suggestion: Whatever else you may choose, don't undersize the inverter in that climate.

Pay your money, take your choice. I've got no skin in your game. Good luck.