Solar Panels for 4plex

[MaxThisPower]

Hi Everyone,

I'm looking at installing grid tied solar panels into my 3800sq.ft. 4plex. My idea is basically to have the tenants pay me for power instead of the power company and in turn pay for the solar system. But after looking at the numbers, the math just doesn't add up.

Right now I have one tenant who gave me their usage history for the last 12 months so for now I just used the same numbers for all the units. Which averages about 1.7KW per month.

						0.09	$ per KW
Unit 1	Unit 2	Unit 3	Unit 4	Total		Estimated Income
283	283	283	283	1132	June	$ 97
400	400	400	400	1600		$ 137
343	343	343	343	1372		$ 118
381	381	381	381	1524		$ 131
432	432	432	432	1728		$ 148
750	750	750	750	3000	Dec.	$ 257
600	600	600	600	2400	Nov.	$ 206
423	423	423	423	1692		$ 145
332	332	332	332	1328		$ 114
364	364	364	364	1456		$ 125
346	346	346	346	1384		$ 119
462	462	462	462	1848	July	$ 158
				20464	Total Annual Usage
				1705	Monthly Average

I went to https://www.altestore.com/store/calc...id_calculator/ and it says that I need is 14.4kw system.

So looking at 14.25KW Kit from Wholesalesolar, it costs $26k not including shipping (I think) or even installation.

http://www.wholesalesolar.com/1892350/wholesale-solar/complete-systems/14.25-kw-grid-tied-solar-system-with-enphase-s280-microinverters-and-50x-suniva-285-panels

Panels	$ 26,000
Shipping	$ 1,000
Envoy Comm Gateway	$ 500
Installation	$ 5,000	me doing most of the work
Misc Supplies	$ 500
Total Expenses	$ 33,000
Federal	$ 9,900	30%
Idaho	$ 1,000	Estimate
Incentives	$ 10,900
Net Cost	$ 22,100

At the end of the day I'll need a loan for about $22k which is $405 per month for 5 year term. The total income I could make from the tenants is $150 to $200 per month and I'll have to put $200+ for the shortage until the loan is paid off.

The most critical mistake I'm making is using only one tenants history to calculate usage but for now it's fairly decent indicator. Besides that, maybe I don't need 14.4kw. I want a system that basically generates enough power to add credit during low demand season so I can use up the extra credits from the power company during high load season.

I'm looking forward for all your feedback.

Thanks,
Max

[jflorey2]

I'm looking at installing grid tied solar panels into my 3800sq.ft. 4plex. My idea is basically to have the tenants pay me for power instead of the power company and in turn pay for the solar system.

Not sure that's a great idea.
1) In some states there are laws that say only power companies can charge for power. It was an issue here because it was not legal for EV chargers to charge by the kilowatt-hour. (Law has since been modified slightly to allow that.)
2) You'll have to deal with angry tenants claiming they didn't really use that much power and you are cheating them.

[MaxThisPower]

1. That's a good point. I'll find that out. If I can't then my work around would be to increase rent and provide power for free.
2. I can see the possibility but my tenants know I care about them, at least I think they do. Personally I wouldn't want a tenant who doesn't trust me anyway.

Do you have any thoughts on 14KW system? Do you think too big?

[J.P.M.]

1. That's a good point. I'll find that out. If I can't then my work around would be to increase rent and provide power for free.
2. I can see the possibility but my tenants know I care about them, at least I think they do. Personally I wouldn't want a tenant who doesn't trust me anyway.

Do you have any thoughts on 14KW system? Do you think too big?

On 1: Include the elec. in the rent and use will go through the roof. Believe it. That's just the way t is.

[MaxThisPower]

On 1: Include the elec. in the rent and use will go through the roof. Believe it. That's just the way t is.

Yep. Agreed. I'll definitely work on some incentives to reduce that, maybe charge a tiered pay.

[solarix]

Ya, multi-family dwellings, apartment houses and strip malls are among the hardest applications for solar power. If each tenant currently has their own meter and own account with the utility, you have to put a separate (small and not-so-cost-effective) solar system on each service instead of one big solar system. The POCO will probably not let you combine the services into one either, and if they did it would be expensive to do so, Plus, there is the whole not-allowed-to-charge-for-electricity issue as your utility has been granted a monopoly on that. Some states and various locations are trying to rework the whole utility monopoly business model however, and there is a growing movement for "community solar" where groups of individuals may band together to put in a common solar project.

[DanKegel]

We rent out a duplex to tenants, and figuring out what to do about the solar power is a big headache. It just doesn't fit into peoples' expectations.

At the moment we charge a simple flat fee per month; the lease specifies we will adjust the fee upwards or downwards periodically based on usage. Bleah.

[MaxThisPower]

I spoke with the power company and she confirmed that I can't charge per kw but there are ways around it.

As far the meters I can connect the solar panels to one meter and the 3 other meters will be billed regularly, then once a year I can transfer the credits fro the solar hour meters to the other three meters.

For me I would rather just split the solar panels into the 4 meters and not have to deal with transferring credits.

[inetdog]

I spoke with the power company and she confirmed that I can't charge per kw but there are ways around it.

As far the meters I can connect the solar panels to one meter and the 3 other meters will be billed regularly, then once a year I can transfer the credits fro the solar hour meters to the other three meters.

For me I would rather just split the solar panels into the 4 meters and not have to deal with transferring credits.

Unfortunately that will be more expensive since it will require at least 4 inverters, each with its own subarray of panels.
I do not know of any way to interconnect one inverter to four metered lines that will not cause a cross connection.

[cebury]

On top of that, it was not really cost effective, or borderline as it was, to begin with. But now going to 4 systems will ruin any chance of this being a net financial positive.

[MaxThisPower]

Unfortunately that will be more expensive since it will require at least 4 inverters, each with its own subarray of panels.
I do not know of any way to interconnect one inverter to four metered lines that will not cause a cross connection.

I was planning on using micro inverters. I'm thinking the only additional cost would the 4x disconnects maybe some additional labor.

[inetdog]

I was planning on using micro inverters. I'm thinking the only additional cost would the 4x disconnects maybe some additional labor.

Plus four interconnect agreements with POCO and maybe four building permit fees.

[ButchDeal]

I was planning on using micro inverters. I'm thinking the only additional cost would the 4x disconnects maybe some additional labor.

You might have problems with envoy communications with four on one house. One will not work across the meters though.

[ButchDeal]

Unfortunately that will be more expensive since it will require at least 4 inverters, each with its own subarray of panels.
I do not know of any way to interconnect one inverter to four metered lines that will not cause a cross connection.

Idaho allows meter aggregation so as long as the four meters are in one name, you can connect one inverter to one of them, and aggregate them to consolidate all consumption and generation.

[MaxThisPower]

Idaho allows meter aggregation so as long as the four meters are in one name, you can connect one inverter to one of them, and aggregate them to consolidate all consumption and generation.

That was my understanding but the lady I talked wasn't too clear on that. She was talking about connecting a different method. I'll call the power company again and confirm meter aggregation.

[ButchDeal]

They will have to be on the same account so you would have to include it in the rent