New system config in Bay Area

[sensij]

My concern is that Nevada has already changed the Net Metering rules and now the Pennsylvania PUC wants to do the same thing.

Net metering rules in CA absolutely will change, later this year in what should be a small way and probably more significantly in 2019. As part of that transition, there is a published CPUC decision establishing grandfathering for NEM 1.0 that would need to be overturned or replaced, which is unlikely in the short term since there are not any protests to that decision that I'm aware of. Grandfathering was also included in the NEM 1.1 (2.0) decision for customers who take service under that tariff, but it was protested and there is still a few more weeks for the CPUC to respond.

The political climate in CA would have to change dramatically for the linked decision to be changed. Not impossible, and it is difficult to assume *anything* about what the world will be like 20 years from now (one reason I focus on shorter cost recovery times), but as far as these kind of assumptions go, it looks relatively safe.

[SunEagle]

Net metering rules in CA absolutely will change, later this year in what should be a small way and probably more significantly in 2019. As part of that transition, there is a published CPUC decision establishing grandfathering for NEM 1.0 that would need to be overturned or replaced, which is unlikely in the short term since there are not any protests to that decision that I'm aware of. Grandfathering was also included in the NEM 1.1 (2.0) decision for customers who take service under that tariff, but it was protested and there is still a few more weeks for the CPUC to respond.

The political climate in CA would have to change dramatically for the linked decision to be changed. Not impossible, and it is difficult to assume *anything* about what the world will be like 20 years from now (one reason I focus on shorter cost recovery times), but as far as these kind of assumptions go, it looks relatively safe.

My hope is that the rates do not change for any of you CA residents and that your solar can continue to pay for itself as quick as possible.

[activemind]

Based on my current cost and projected consumption, I am looking at recouping my money in 6-7 years. It should be a free ride after that

[SunEagle]

Based on my current cost and projected consumption, I am looking at recouping my money in 6-7 years. It should be a free ride after that

Glad the math works out for you. For me even at $2/watt would take me more than 10 years to maybe break even.

[activemind]

If i had access to such cheap electricity, i wouldn't be even looking at solar. Why bother?

But when your electric bills start touching $200 a month without much AC and no EV charge...you have to start looking at options.

I had been on the fence about solar for past couple of years but the recent rate change by PGE pushed me over the edge.

Who knows what they will do to the rates in future and i dont want to be chasing down my family every second of the day monitoring electric usage. Smart and sensible usage, sure. But i dont want to become a electricity tyrant at home. Investing money in solar seemed like a better option ☺

[thejq]

2. I will be putting 1 240V outlet for charging my car at home. Anything special I need to keep in mind when the circuit is wired?

If you already know the car you need to charge, you can select the wiring size accordingly. Depending on what type of quick charger you want to get, I'd suggest you install a wall outlet in the garage, eg. the 4-plug RV type, so you can install any charger later. You might want to oversize the wiring slightly, eg. for 30A charger, you'd need 40A wiring, but go for 50A for future proofing. You can easily change the breaker, but not the wires. I'd also install conduit even inside the walls just to be safe.

[SunEagle]

If i had access to such cheap electricity, i wouldn't be even looking at solar. Why bother?

But when your electric bills start touching $200 a month without much AC and no EV charge...you have to start looking at options.

I had been on the fence about solar for past couple of years but the recent rate change by PGE pushed me over the edge.

Who knows what they will do to the rates in future and i dont want to be chasing down my family every second of the day monitoring electric usage. Smart and sensible usage, sure. But i dont want to become a electricity tyrant at home. Investing money in solar seemed like a better option ☺

I understand. I have been able to reduce my consumption to less than 17000kWh annually down from 26000kWh back in 2010. I now spend on average maybe $200/mth (was $315/mth back in 2010) but will go below that $200 this year since my POCO actually reduced the rate of my first 1000kWh down to $0.095/kWh which is less than it was back in 2008.

[activemind]

If you already know the car you need to charge, you can select the wiring size accordingly. Depending on what type of quick charger you want to get, I'd suggest you install a wall outlet in the garage, eg. the 4-plug RV type, so you can install any charger later. You might want to oversize the wiring slightly, eg. for 30A charger, you'd need 40A wiring, but go for 50A for future proofing. You can easily change the breaker, but not the wires. I'd also install conduit even inside the walls just to be safe.

My current EV is a leaf and I *might* get a model 3 down the road. I will be going with juice box charger (https://www.emotorwerks.com/index.ph...ory_pathway-23) which is currently 40A model. So based on what you said, 50A wiring should be good.

I was thinking of getting the NEMA 14-50 outlet and then plug in the juicebox.

Comments?

[solardreamer]

With the idea that PVWatts is a long term average estimate with any year off by a fair amount, do you have any thoughts on other reasons why production might be down besides perhaps El Nino ?

The only other thing I can think of is that PVWatts only provides weather data from a few locations so the weather data used in my PVWatts model is the closest location to me but it's far away enough that actual weather can be quite different since the Bay Area has many micro-climates.

[solardreamer]

After much deliberation and back and forth and 16-18 configs/quotes later I think I have made up my mind

I am going with 18 LG320 panels and SE P300 power optimizers and SE7600 inverter.

Total system power would be 5.76kW and price would be $19,465 => $3.38/Watt.

After rebate cost ~ $13,625.

I am also doing my panel upgrade from 100A to 200A as part of this project.

Had some questions about that:

1. What panel should I be putting? I dont want the best in class but I want best bang for the buck and good saftey rating.
2. I will be putting 1 240V outlet for charging my car at home. Anything special I need to keep in mind when the circuit is wired?

Thanks for all the feedback and help guys.
Appreciate it!

-AM

I would suggest putting in at least 50A 240V circuit with RV type outlet for EV charging since you are upgrading to 200A panel. Depending on your target EV, you may want to consider 60A or higher 240V circuit.

[solardreamer]

My current EV is a leaf and I *might* get a model 3 down the road. I will be going with juice box charger (https://www.emotorwerks.com/index.ph...ory_pathway-23) which is currently 40A model. So based on what you said, 50A wiring should be good.

I was thinking of getting the NEMA 14-50 outlet and then plug in the juicebox.

Comments?

I have the same charger but I don't think LEAF can do 10KW charging so it's an overkill. But if you plan on getting model 3 then you may want to put in 80A circuit. There is new juicebox that can do 70 or 75A.

[activemind]

You are right. I think the max leaf (at least mine) can do it 5.6kWh. Let me see how much of extra $ will it be to wire it for 80A breaker since I am getting the panel upgraded to 200A.

If its too much, I will settle for 50A and deal with it *when* I buy the model 3

[thejq]

You are right. I think the max leaf (at least mine) can do it 5.6kWh. Let me see how much of extra $ will it be to wire it for 80A breaker since I am getting the panel upgraded to 200A.

If its too much, I will settle for 50A and deal with it *when* I buy the model 3

Just because you have a 200A panel doesn't mean you can put it a 80A breaker. It depends on other breakers installed and your peak consumption. Your electrician should give you a better idea of what's possible. Also you can manually control how much current your Juicebox can put out based on the vehicle you have. For example, say you get the 75A Juicebox to be ready for Model 3, but you only have a Leaf now (5.6 KW or 25A internal charger), you can adjust a resistor pot on the board to 30A max to protect against over current and install a 30A breaker for now. When I bought my Juicebox, they came in as a kit (no longer offered now), and I had to do the adjustments myself plus soldering and assembly. But it costed 50% less.

[J.P.M.]

Glad the math works out for you. For me even at $2/watt would take me more than 10 years to maybe break even.

This is simple : If your rates were higher, your payback period would be less. If I were in FL, and since shorter payback periods are desirable, and also since PV prices seem to be leveling off for a while, I'd lobby for a rate increase -->>> shorter payback period. You have my sympathy (not).

[activemind]

I dont mind the DIY kit and looked around for one and realized that it was a kickstarter thing. They dont do it anymore. Thats fine too but it looks like a nifty box with all the controls I am looking for.

Any insights into tying juice box to Vera ( I know its outside the scope of this thread) but it seems worth asking At the end of the day its Arduino based and open source, so could be modified to dump all usage data somewhere or it already does that.