DIY costs compared to Installers

[bryankloos]

Hi guys,

I'm looking at the costs of complete systems, available online. Seems they go for around $1.60 ish per kW...

What are the hidden costs with a homeowner installed system? I'm curious how much margin the local installers are making. I'm getting quotes and should have system specs and costs presented to me next week. I'm a very handy guy who dowsnt mind heights, electrical work, and saving money...

[organic farmer]

Are you looking at a grid-tied / net-metering system? If so than you can not do it yourself.

[bryankloos]

Yes, grid tied net metering. Which part of the install required a pro? My local inspector allows homeowners to do electrical work. Is it a POCO issue?

[sensij]

Some places allow it, some don't. You'll find some good DIY threads in the forum where total installed costs for a basic roof mount system end up around $2/W. Depending, among other things, on the size of the system, $3.50 / W professionally installed is a decent price here in southern CA.

[foo1bar]

Are you looking at a grid-tied / net-metering system? If so than you can not do it yourself.

That depends greatly on the power company and AHJ.
Some locations will require you to have an electrician do the interconnect.
But many allow a homeowner to do their own work.
I did my system install myself in 2015 (with some help from family), and I am not a licensed electrician, nor was anyone that helped me.

What are the hidden costs with a homeowner installed system? I'm curious how much margin the local installers are making.

Not a lot of margin.
The costs that are probably not part of that $1.60/W that you're seeing would include ~$.40/W for all the items you'll buy at HD/Lowes/electrical-supply house.
And add in some for various tools that you don't have.
Probably it doesn't include labels.
May/may not include some necessary items like mounting feet for the roof.
Almost definitely won't include some of the SS nuts, bolts, washers, conduit, Jboxes, breakers, breaker panel, wire
Probably doesn't include plans needed for applying for the permit nor the cost of the permit. (I did my own plans and the permit was ~$300 IIRC, but mine was refunded later as part of my POCO's rebate)

Then there is the overhead and labor.
The installer needs to pay for:
* office/warehouse space
* trucks
* someone to answer phones
* phones
* electricity
* advertising
* etc.
All those overhead type items that he has.

And there's the labor for your job.
* estimator/salesman that comes out ( and does yours and 10 others that don't result in sales)
* plan creator
* 1/2day at permit office
* 4 people * 1 day on site installing
* 1/2 day inspection

Also the $1.60/W is probably the cheapest panels and cheapest inverter.
It may be advantagous to go with different option.
For me it was better to go with 280W panels and Solaredge inverter.
280W because it was at the knee of the curve as you go to higher wattage they get more expensive faster - but I was roof-limited.
Solaredge because I have shading issues.

[foo1bar]

Here's the thread on my system (toward the end was some more discussion on DIY costs)

https://www.solarpaneltalk.com/forum/solar-panels-for-home/solar-panel-installation/17714-diy-system-in-ca-8-68kw-system

[organic farmer]

I stand corrected than. In my state the state government does not allow it and the utility companies do not allow it.

Here even a licensed electrician is not allowed to touch the system.

[SunEagle]

I stand corrected than. In my state the state government does not allow it and the utility companies do not allow it.

Here even a licensed electrician is not allowed to touch the system.

We have the same issue here in Florida. The installer must be both a licensed electrician as well as have a certification to perform a solar pv installation.

One thing that most DIY forget is that if they do make a mistake on the design/equipment/install it will be your responsibility and nickle to fix it if it doesn't work.

I am ok performing a DIY for some small projects but I would prefer to have a professional do the work for a huge investment like a solar pv system.

[organic farmer]

My E-panel was pre-wired and tested from WholesaleSolar.

I designed and installed our solar panel array mounting. [one before Hurricane Sandy, and one after hurricane Sandy] along with it's lightning rod towers.
Conduit and cabling to run into the house was easy.
Connecting to the E-panel was easy.
Setting up the battery-bank was easy.
Through-out the process I asked a lot of questions on this forum and other forums.
I also met with other local off-grid homesteaders, and I continue to meet with other local off-grid homesteaders.

However my system is not net-metering. Which makes a HUGE difference.

[Mike90250]

Are you looking at a grid-tied / net-metering system? If so than you can not do it yourself.

Depending on the location, that may not be true, Some states/cities/counties homeowners CAN do work and if it passes the inspection, you are good to go.

[FNG AZ]

Hi guys,

I'm looking at the costs of complete systems, available online. Seems they go for around $1.60 ish per kW...

What are the hidden costs with a homeowner installed system? I'm curious how much margin the local installers are making. I'm getting quotes and should have system specs and costs presented to me next week. I'm a very handy guy who dowsnt mind heights, electrical work, and saving money...

You can get lower then that on a DIY and get great stuff. ( IE...SolarWorld panels, SMA inveter and Ironridge racking.) Before rebates!! After rebates you will be less then $1.00 per W. All depends on your roof and electrical panel. Check out Renvu for the goods.

Check with your county or city for permit requirements. Then check with your poco.

[foo1bar]

You can get lower then that on a DIY and get great stuff. ( IE...SolarWorld panels, SMA inveter and Ironridge racking.) Before rebates!! After rebates you will be less then $1.00 per KW.

I assume you meant $1/W - not $1/kW (Otherwise, I've got $50 in my pocket - I'll happily do a 50kW system for $50.

$1/W after tax credit would be $1.42/W before.
I think it's hard to get to $1.42/W and have a complete system.
Inverter is $.33/W for a 7000W inverter
Panels will likely be at least $.60/W
Racking and shipping is probably another $.25/W
That's $1.18/W already.
And I'm probably missing some obvious things before we get to the ~$.40/W in various items from the hardware/big-box stores.

So I think getting to $1.42/W is a real challenge still for a DIY'er.
Might be doable - but I think hitting that price point for an entire system would be difficult without going for panels on clearance and such.

$2/W before tax credits is definitely doable - probably even $1.75/W.

[sunnyguy]

I assume you meant $1/W - not $1/kW (Otherwise, I've got $50 in my pocket - I'll happily do a 50kW system for $100.

$1/W after tax credit would be $1.42/W before.
I think it's hard to get to $1.42/W and have a complete system.
Inverter is $.33/W for a 7000W inverter
Panels will likely be at least $.60/W
Racking and shipping is probably another $.25/W
That's $1.18/W already.
And I'm probably missing some obvious things before we get to the ~$.40/W in various items from the hardware/big-box stores.

So I think getting to $1.42/W is a real challenge still for a DIY'er.
Might be doable - but I think hitting that price point for an entire system would be difficult without going for panels on clearance and such.

$2/W before tax credits is definitely doable - probably even $1.75/W.

$2 is easily achievable, $1.42 is possible in the right circumstances.

[Samsolar]

I assume you meant $1/W - not $1/kW (Otherwise, I've got $50 in my pocket - I'll happily do a 50kW system for $50.

$1/W after tax credit would be $1.42/W before.
I think it's hard to get to $1.42/W and have a complete system.
Inverter is $.33/W for a 7000W inverter
Panels will likely be at least $.60/W
Racking and shipping is probably another $.25/W
That's $1.18/W already.
And I'm probably missing some obvious things before we get to the ~$.40/W in various items from the hardware/big-box stores.

So I think getting to $1.42/W is a real challenge still for a DIY'er.
Might be doable - but I think hitting that price point for an entire system would be difficult without going for panels on clearance and such.

$2/W before tax credits is definitely doable - probably even $1.75/W.

Don't forget State rebates. My system (DIY) LG/Enphase was $1/W after rebates including all materials, quickmount flashings, etc. Prices seem to have come down another 10% in the last year, so in some ways $1/W is high after rebates.

[SunEagle]

Don't forget State rebates. My system (DIY) LG/Enphase was $1/W after rebates including all materials, quickmount flashings, etc. Prices seem to have come down another 10% in the last year, so in some ways $1/W is high after rebates.

Not ever state has rebates or "renewable energy credits" as incentives. For most the only reduction in cost would be the Fed Tax rebate.

Even the net metering "profits" are being reduced by a number of POCO's so if someone used that to determine their ROI they might be in for a surprise like the people in Nevada.