SCE is telling me to remove my electricity monitoring CTs....HELP!

[insaneoctane]

Ok, so I have several questions to see if anyone has experience with SCE being unhappy. When I installed my TED5000 Energy monitoring device, I didn't find anywhere downstream of the meter to clamp my CT's and measure my house's energy usage. The simplest answer was to attach them to the supply wires. Easy peasy (so I thought). Unfortunately, 1 year later, my power company (SCE) has decided I have to remove them. Ok, that sucks. I went over my box and racked my brain. I'm creative, I'll find something....I haven't! There just ISN"T anywhere to clamp the CTs to. So, before I remove my ability to monitor my system & power and throw away my investment in my TED5000, I wanted to ask a couple Q's...

1) Any experience that would indicate if I were going to try the logical approach and ASK SCE for permission, would I be better off writing a letter to A) SCE department ? or B) Talking to the guy who tagged my box (I have his contact info on the tag). I'm not too convinced the guy who tagged me is going to change his mind, but who knows....If I write a department, which one, Net metering? Revenue control?
2) If there is no way that the very very simple elegant solution of leaving the CTs on the wire prior to the meter works, any other suggestions?

I'm sure SCE will just stick to the standard statement/response that no customer equipment is allowed on their side of the meter. But it's so easy for me. My CTs are big PLASTIC clamps that go around big INSULATED wires. Upon simple inspection (much like the type that led them to tag me), one could easily determine the device is NOT stealing power and I would invite them to put their tamper resistant wires around the access panel after inspecting that it is benign. (FWIW, the tamper-resistant wire was NEVER there when I added the clamps). But, I'm quite expecting the thoroughly un-thought out response "No."

For anyone who doesn't get why I can't camp post meter, it's a combo unit that, while is fed beefy service wires, immediately goes to bus bars to the meter and bus bars to the 200A main breaker and bus bars to the top of the house bus. No wires to tap! Also the bus bars are way TOO close to accommodate the CT clamps. Picture included.

Thanks for looking!

[foo1bar]

1) Any experience that would indicate if I were going to try the logical approach and ASK SCE for permission, would I be better off writing a letter to A) SCE department ? or B) Talking to the guy who tagged my box (I have his contact info on the tag). I'm not too convinced the guy who tagged me is going to change his mind, but who knows....

Worth trying I suppose - don't see how it can hurt.

Also the bus bars are way TOO close to accommodate the CT clamps. Picture included.

I can't see the bus bars in that picture that go from the main to where the breakers plug in.
Maybe there's a different CT that can fit around those somehow. (I'd look into it at least)

If you can't put the CTs around any of the existing wires/buses, then I think your only other option is to change out the panel so that you can fit in your CTs after the meter. And there are a couple of options that you can talk to your electrician about how you could accomplish what you want.

[inetdog]

...
... Also the bus bars are way TOO close to accommodate the CT clamps. Picture included.

Thanks for looking!

You may have a problem interfacing them to your monitor and they are not cheap, but there is a thin flexible alternative to the toroidal CT called a Rogowski coil.

http://www.dentinstruments.com/rogowski-coils-flexible-ct-current-transformers

Might work and would still be cheaper than a new meter housing and panel.

[sensij]

A Rainforest Eagle device (~$100) should be able to communicate with the meter via Zigbee, and report the same information you are collecting from the TED CT's.

[azdave]

I just can't imagine a scenario where you will be granted permission to leave the clamps in place. SCE has absolutely no reason to allow a customer to bend their rules and I'm sure they could care less about your monitoring needs. The next person who does it might actually install a set of fake clamps that DO pierce the wires and is partially bypassing the meter. What do they gain by allowing the clamps? If they gain nothing then there is no reason for them to do anything in your favor.

If you agree to pay them $10 per month for permission to monitor ahead of the meter then you might have a win-win. ( joke)

[ButchDeal]

TED used to sell flexible CTs. You might try contacting them on the support line to see if these would work for you. They still have the larger ones for commercial use so you can get an idea of the size. I would think that a set of these might fit on your side around the bus.
https://www.theenergydetective.com/2000rc.html NOTE this is a 2ka 24" unit, you would want one much smaller.

[SunEagle]

A Rainforest Eagle device (~$100) should be able to communicate with the meter via Zigbee, and report the same information you are collecting from the TED CT's.

First make sure you POCO will give you the Zigbee access code to read the meter. My POCO will not so I installed a Blue Line device on the meter which reads the kw pulses.

It is not as accurate as the TED system but only costs ~ $100 - $150 total for the device on the meter and a WIFI unit to send the data to a webpage.

[sensij]

SCE does the zigbee pairing, no code is required.

I would expect the blue line device to be more accurate than TED, not less.

[SunEagle]

SCE does the zigbee pairing, no code is required.

I'm jealous.

[foo1bar]

What you are encountering is one of many potential problems with using an integrated meter/main enclosure.

I did NOT write the above.

Personally I only see 1 real problem with an integrated meter/main - and that is they're now tied together so replacing one part's functionality automatically means replacing the entire unit. But that's a pretty obvious problem and since they usually are cheaper than two separate units it's likely to be a reasonable tradeoff.

[inetdog]

Personally I only see 1 real problem with an integrated meter/main - and that is they're now tied together so replacing one part's functionality automatically means replacing the entire unit. But that's a pretty obvious problem and since they usually are cheaper than two separate units it's likely to be a reasonable tradeoff.

The other, more serious, problem is that it makes it nearly impossible to make a supply side connection for the PV backfeed. The only way around that is to replace the panel.

[ButchDeal]

The other, more serious, problem is that it makes it nearly impossible to make a supply side connection for the PV backfeed. The only way around that is to replace the panel.

Also usually smaller only 100a (they have larger ones now but the ones you find are generally 100a)
and usually center fed and as mentioned nearly impossible to do a supply side tap.
Takes a lot more time to coordinate replacing as it includes the meter than separate MSP upgrades.

[philips]

I use a Rainforest Eagle with SDG&E and for what it's worth, they consider it "enabling technology" so I get larger reduce your use credits on RYU days. Not sure if SCE is the same.

[insaneoctane]

Lots of good feedback. I don't see paying for a new box. I'm likely going to "ask" SCE if they would allow it since they want to close the access panel with tamper-resistant ties. It seems logical to me that they ought to be able to inspect it before closing and securing with tamper resistant ties that it is truly benign. Once it's inspected and locked I don't see their risk? Unfortunately, the logical approach is one I'm sure they'll deny. Option 2 seems to be to find out if I can fit ALL the Phase A lines out of the breakers through one clamp and then ALL the phase B lines out of the breakers into the other clamp. This would technically get me what I need. I feel this has about a 60% chance of working (physically, not technically/electrically; I don't know if I have enough "wiggle" room to make this happen). Option 3 is to look into another product that works with/like the Rainforest Eagle. Any more suggestions here? My TED5000 is fully integrated and I want that. I don't want to try to use Eagle and TED5000 together unless they can actually be tied together in the software (doubt it can be done). Any systems out there that are a hybrid that use CT clamps on PV and zigbee with the meter? I'm a fishin'

[inetdog]

FWIW, you could put half the Phase A lines through one CT and half through another and then put the two CT windings in parallel.
Same for B phase. Just costs twice as much for the CTs.