Question about size of solar array

[quicksilver8907]

I currently have an 8.46kw system installed on my house from the previous owner. It is a lease and I do not want to assume the lease because the panels are from 2010. I looked at my usage and it looks like I use about 8500-10000kw per year. What would be a good sized system for me? What should I expect to pay? I am located in central california.

[solar pete]

I currently have an 8.46kw system installed on my house from the previous owner. It is a lease and I do not want to assume the lease because the panels are from 2010. I looked at my usage and it looks like I use about 8500-10000kw per year. What would be a good sized system for me? What should I expect to pay? I am located in central california.

Howdy quicksilver, I'm a bit confused, are you planning on buying this house or have you bought it? If you have already bought it have you excluded the solar deal i.e are the lease company comming to take down the current 8.46kW system? Panels being from 2010 dont really matter at all, if they are a good tier 1 panel, they will work for another 20 years. About the usage, say 10,000 kWh per year divided by 365 days is 27.3 kWh per day, without looking it up the current 8.46kW should average around 33kWh per day, so it comes down to what percentage of your power usage you want to replace with solar. Opinions vary quite a bit on this one others from your area who are more knowledgeable about the way you are billed their will hopefully chime in and help out, good luck with it

[quicksilver8907]

Its a long story. I already own the house and they are only offering me a lease. Of $161 a month with an increase every year. Also there is never an option to purchase. Looking at other options if i have them come take down the system, which they may or may not actually do.

[mosun]

Its a long story. I already own the house and they are only offering me a lease. Of $161 a month with an increase every year. Also there is never an option to purchase. Looking at other options if i have them come take down the system, which they may or may not actually do.

Hi quicksilver,
Looks like you're assuming a 20yr lease at year 5 at $161/month right now at 2.9%? I hate that increase every year on a lease. I think you should tell them to remove the system and see what they do. Maybe they'll sell it to you.

The present system seems sized to cover your total needs, depending on actual production and actual use. If the existing system is removed are you still interested in solar? Would you be leasing or get a low interest loan or even pay cash? I think you would come out better buying a new system than paying the existing lease w/ increases. If you do lease, then at least specify no increases (you might have to pay slightly more each month, but I like the idea of a flat rate). Just my 2 cents.

M

[quicksilver8907]

Yeah, I offered to buy it from them once and they wouldn't go for it, not even a counter offer. I have a hard time believing that they will actually come and remove it.

[J.P.M.]

I currently have an 8.46kw system installed on my house from the previous owner. It is a lease and I do not want to assume the lease because the panels are from 2010. I looked at my usage and it looks like I use about 8500-10000kw per year. What would be a good sized system for me? What should I expect to pay? I am located in central california.

Sounds like you just moved in ? Make sure you have not accepted the existing lease.
Where are you? Run PVWatts for your location and see what the estimated long term annual output for that system is.
Then, figure out how you are charged for electricity and what your annual bills might be without any solar.
Then, see what a properly sized new system would set you back if you bought it.
The existing system's probably in about as good a shape now as when new, whatever that means.
See if you can find what the prior owners paid/mo. It may be less than $161/mo. Use that in negotiations. I don't fancy leases, but not my money/house/life.

[Yaryman]

Yeah, I offered to buy it from them once and they wouldn't go for it, not even a counter offer. I have a hard time believing that they will actually come and remove it.

Back in the day when many, many homes owners were under water on their loans banks wouldn't redo the loans even if you qualified.
Many, many home owners wanted to do the "right thing" so they stayed current on their under water loans.

BUT, if you stopped paying the loan, after 4 or 5 months you suddenly qualified for a lower loan rate.

It was amazing how that worked.

If my math is correct you will be paying at least $1932 a year for the next 16 years to lease the solar system.
Again, if my math is correct, you will pay at least $30,912 for a 2010 system.

It's a gamble, but stop paying them. Tell them they can have the panels. Tell them to come get the panels.

I would say it's at least 50/50 they SUDDENLY decide to let you buy the panels.

If they call your bluff, you should be able to buy a new system for less. ( Especially when you get the Fed. tax credit )

Once again, logic and reason suggest they don't want to come and take a your system down and eat the entire cost of the loan.

BUT, sometimes logic and reason don't cross paths.

[J.P.M.]

Back in the day when many, many homes owners were under water on their loans banks wouldn't redo the loans even if you qualified.
Many, many home owners wanted to do the "right thing" so they stayed current on their under water loans.

BUT, if you stopped paying the loan, after 4 or 5 months you suddenly qualified for a lower loan rate.

It was amazing how that worked.

If my math is correct you will be paying at least $1932 a year for the next 16 years to lease the solar system.
Again, if my math is correct, you will pay at least $30,912 for a 2010 system.

It's a gamble, but stop paying them. Tell them they can have the panels. Tell them to come get the panels.

I would say it's at least 50/50 they SUDDENLY decide to let you buy the panels.

If they call your bluff, you should be able to buy a new system for less. ( Especially when you get the Fed. tax credit )

Once again, logic and reason suggest they don't want to come and take a your system down and eat the entire cost of the loan.

BUT, sometimes logic and reason don't cross paths.

I'm NOT sure on this, but do know that the ITC cannot be taken for used equipment. I'd check out whether or not off lease purchased equipment is considered used. Just sayin'.

[DanS26]

Yeah, I offered to buy it from them once and they wouldn't go for it, not even a counter offer. I have a hard time believing that they will actually come and remove it.

Call their bluff. What do you have to lose but a bunch of holes in your roof. It will be expensive for them to remove and repair the the roof. Be patient......wait until the last possible moment.....then buy it at the price you set.

[Yaryman]

I'm NOT sure on this, but do know that the ITC cannot be taken for used equipment.
I'd check out whether or not off lease purchased equipment is considered used. Just sayin'.

What is "ITC"?

Even if the panels are somehow considered new, who are they going to pawn them off on?

What size were panels 5 years ago? How are they going to stick a 205W panel on somebody's roof and claim it's new?

Once again, logic and reason suggest the lease company sells the panels and moves on.
Once again, logic and reason don't always walk hand in hand.

[quicksilver8907]

I'm glad everyone is thinking the same thing I was. I am actually not paying on them at all right now and I signed nothing so I hold no obligation to assume the lease.

[jmgray28]

You should be able to get it really cheap seeing that who ever the leasing company is already took the 30% tax credit and whatever local incentives that were around in 2010 and got around $8000 dollars in payments from the previous owner. Then cost to take them down store them and try to resell them.

[J.P.M.]

What is "ITC"?

Even if the panels are somehow considered new, who are they going to pawn them off on?

What size were panels 5 years ago? How are they going to stick a 205W panel on somebody's roof and claim it's new?

Once again, logic and reason suggest the lease company sells the panels and moves on.
Once again, logic and reason don't always walk hand in hand.

"ITC"== Investment Tax Credit. The 30% U.S. fed. tax credit that, among other things, can only be taken for new equipment AFAIK. Just something to check out with a tax advisor.

[solarz]

I'm glad everyone is thinking the same thing I was. I am actually not paying on them at all right now and I signed nothing so I hold no obligation to assume the lease.

Are you sure that the previous owner did not put it into the purchase contract?

If you do not sign it, the lease is in the previous owner name. The solar company can sue or take the previous owner to court or so ... I do not think any sellers that is so silly? Plus Escrow company will not close if there is some pending.

[quicksilver8907]

Are you sure that the previous owner did not put it into the purchase contract?

If you do not sign it, the lease is in the previous owner name. The solar company can sue or take the previous owner to court or so ... I do not think any sellers that is so silly? Plus Escrow company will not close if there is some pending.

Previous owner died. House was a foreclosure that sat vacant for two years and the solar panels remained on the roof.