Finally signed contact 5.30 kw

[ButchDeal]

You are either grid tie or non grid tie (solar independent). So there is no such use solar power when grid down if you connect to the grid.
SMA allows for 1 plug for 1.4KW draw which is useless ... Just for light I guess.

This is not true at all. There is a class of inverters referred to as bimodal which have batteries, are grid tied and operate in isolation when the Grid is down. They are quite costly and you should have a real need for the autonomy before deciding to go with one like this as it is going to have a much longer return on investment.

[solardreamer]

I also asked installers about the same thing and was told that it could be done for alot more money and may not qualify for tax credit. So, while I share your feeling just on the principle there has been has been no blackout longer than an hour in my area for decades so the economics does not make sense. I plan to revisit this in the future but for now I have my EV with 30Kwh battery as power backup.

Hi all,

Kyocera panels are manufactured in Mexico with headquarters in Japan. Solar City wrote me an offer for Kyocera panels. I'm probably going to decline because I want panels manufactured by an American company in America and panels that produce more than 265 watts. I understand that there are panels that produce in the range of 350 watts. Any reccomendations. BTW the reason I'm asking is last year I used 20,771 KW. The system solar city recommended has a 75 percent offset. They could fit 44 panels on the roof. With 350 watt panels I figure I could get up to the 95% offset range without over producing most months.

BTW I'm looking for a solar company that is willing to install more than Grid-direct systems. I'd like a system where I can be, if necessary, independent of the grid. If necessary I would like the panels to supply power to the home as well as have a backup battery system. I do lease a Tesla Model S so it would be nice to have only clean energy filling its battery. Speaking of batteries I'm looking at buying the 7 KW battery which is in the planning stages at Tesla Motors. It probably won't be out until the middle part of 1016 but I am on the "interested" list (not possible yet to order). I have a friend that recently had solar installed. His panels are useless in a blackout. Where's the sense in that ?

I've talked with three major solar installers including solar city and was suprised to learn that they only install Grid-direct Systems. I'm with SDG&E in southern California and last month's electric bill was $900. They have 4 tiers the highest of which is 40 cents/KWH. I have one shot of doing this. I am trying to read up on it and have found that it is more complicated then it seems.

Basically I'm looking for a company that will work with me and install a utility-interactive system that will allow me to: 1. Use solar power when the grid is down. 2. Support Tesla's new battery. I live in south orange county (Southern California)

Thanks for your assistance.

[maximizese]

I also asked installers about the same thing and was told that it could be done for alot more money and may not qualify for tax credit. So, while I share your feeling just on the principle there has been has been no blackout longer than an hour in my area for decades so the economics does not make sense. I plan to revisit this in the future but for now I have my EV with 30Kwh battery as power backup.

30kWh battery…that'll get you done! In fact that'll power my 1,400 sq ft house for nearly 3.5 days if I went into miser-mode. The battery/capacitor concept from Telsa and others will make off-grid living a much greater possibility. As I understand things today, utility companies either have to approve of your solar system array and will allow you transmit electricity from their grid (intertie), or they will not approve of your design and will not allow you to transmit electricity from their grid.

I suppose you could intertie with a battery like solar dreamer is doing with his car (Nissan Leaf?).

[compchat]

I also asked installers about the same thing and was told that it could be done for alot more money and may not qualify for tax credit. So, while I share your feeling just on the principle there has been has been no blackout longer than an hour in my area for decades so the economics does not make sense. I plan to revisit this in the future but for now I have my EV with 30Kwh battery as power backup.

I have a 85KW tesla but have no idea how to use its battery as backup. How are you planning to get 30KW DC out of your vehicle, convert it to useful AC without voiding your car's warranty ?

As to reliability of Grid there have been a number of movies made about the vulnerability of the Grid to accident and attack. IMHO it's just a matter of time until the grid is down for weeks. Several years ago we'd loose power every summer when a transformer would blow due to overheating. This is with SDGE in S. California. Grid was down generally 6 to 8 hours sometimes up to two days. But we've had, here lately, thousands of people in certain areas loose power for weeks (unique to where they live). The aging infrastructure in Los Angeles and other large citys is concerning.

BTW 'it's a lot more money" excuse is probably because they make more money in the model they push. Grid Direct power.

[solar_newbie]

Understood. I wasn't sure if the tax credit was set to expire at the end of the year. From what I understand the current tax credit will expire at the end of 2016, but I would be surprised if it doesn't get extended or modified to smaller credit. At the suggestion of another forum member, I read Solar Power Your Homes for Dummies, 2008, and I can't believe how far down the cost of solar has become over the last 7 years. The author cites about $5/watt and about $40,000 for a 5kW system design. Apparently there was about $12,000 in rebates/credits at the time to drive the price down to about $28,000 installed.

I'm trying to get my house ready for a 3.1kW system with 12 panels to be installed by May of 2016. I just need to make sure I get a larger inverter in case I want to a few panels after buying an EV/PHEV.

I did not notice your plan to defer to May 2016 I am not sure where you live but you might not be able to get NEM 1.0 by next May

[compchat]

FWIW, and as you seem to be finding out, the solar process and it's possibilities are probably more complicated than you may have thought at one time. I'll only respectfully observe that from what you write, and your usage, it seems you have a way to go in the information dept. before you can make an informed decision. Read up and get an energy audit. As it is now, my guess is you're solar ignorance makes you vulnerable to solar shysters, con men and peddlers. Knowledge is power.

I hear that brother. Learning fast. Reading book "photovoltaic design and inspection for dummies." In fact I met with a Verengo rep today and she really didn't like that I was asking technical questions (based on my reading). BTW both solar city and verango do energy audits. They have to do them to decide how large a system to install. Did you know that Solar City puts a lien on your house when you lease their equipment ? That would interfere with, for instance, refinancing your home.

What's interesting as a physician I have people come in all the time thinking they know more than me about medicine. They are highly opinionated. While I respect their right to choose their own care I can see that decades of expierence to some people makes no difference. Same is probably true in the solar business.

[solar_newbie]

This is not true at all. There is a class of inverters referred to as bimodal which have batteries, are grid tied and operate in isolation when the Grid is down. They are quite costly and you should have a real need for the autonomy before deciding to go with one like this as it is going to have a much longer return on investment.

What is the diferent if I have extra batteries like tesla or enphase ?

[solar_newbie]

I hear that brother. Learning fast. Reading book "photovoltaic design and inspection for dummies." In fact I met with a Verengo rep today and she really didn't like that I was asking technical questions (based on my reading). BTW both solar city and verango do energy audits. They have to do them to decide how large a system to install. Did you know that Solar City puts a lien on your house when you lease their equipment ? That would interfere with, for instance, refinancing your home.

What's interesting as a physician I have people come in all the time thinking they know more than me about medicine. They are highly opinionated. While I respect their right to choose their own care I can see that decades of expierence to some people makes no difference. Same is probably true in the solar business.

Why lease when you paid 900/month for electric and drive tesla

[solardreamer]

Sorry I didn't make it clear. The car is a backup battery in that it has a decent size battery (36KWh actually) with multiple DC outlets so what I meant is that in emergency I can use the car to power small appliances directly or with DC/AC inverter if necessary. There is no direct DC charging of the car battery from solar.

In any case, conceptually it seems pretty straight forward use solar during grid outage by just disconnecting from the grid via breaker and plug in some kind of wave generator to simulate grid presence to enable energy flow from the solar inverters but that probably violates numerous regulations. However, if there is a real disaster with extended power outage I would probably do it anyway. I plan to revisit this later.

I have a 85KW tesla but have no idea how to use its battery as backup. How are you planning to get 30KW DC out of your vehicle, convert it to useful AC without voiding your car's warranty ?

As to reliability of Grid there have been a number of movies made about the vulnerability of the Grid to accident and attack. IMHO it's just a matter of time until the grid is down for weeks. Several years ago we'd loose power every summer when a transformer would blow due to overheating. This is with SDGE in S. California. Grid was down generally 6 to 8 hours sometimes up to two days. But we've had, here lately, thousands of people in certain areas loose power for weeks (unique to where they live). The aging infrastructure in Los Angeles and other large citys is concerning.

BTW 'it's a lot more money" excuse is probably because they make more money in the model they push. Grid Direct power.

[compchat]

Why lease when you paid 900/month for electric and drive tesla

Actually it's a ridiculous $1300/month but constitutes a decent tax break and a great ride. More than that it's a choice as to how you will spend your money. Let's see, Tesla or solar panels

[ButchDeal]

In any case, conceptually it seems pretty straight forward use solar during grid outage by just disconnecting from the grid via breaker and plug in some kind of wave generator to simulate grid presence to enable energy flow from the solar inverters but that probably violates numerous regulations. However, if there is a real disaster with extended power outage I would probably do it anyway. I plan to revisit this later.

Then there would be two disasters ( at least for you ). Do not attempt this it will end badly.

[ButchDeal]

What is the diferent if I have extra batteries like tesla or enphase ?

You need an inverter capable of working without the grid, capable of disconnecting from the grid, capable of charging a battery, with two AC connections ( one for grid and one for backup circuit). Outback power, Snyder, and solarEdge make systems like this. SolarEdge is the new player on the market and is the inverter system for tesla powerwall and should be available before the end of the year.
These systems are more complex and expensive, and requre more electrical work as well as batteries to function.

[J.P.M.]

I hear that brother. Learning fast. Reading book "photovoltaic design and inspection for dummies." In fact I met with a Verengo rep today and she really didn't like that I was asking technical questions (based on my reading). BTW both solar city and verango do energy audits. They have to do them to decide how large a system to install. Did you know that Solar City puts a lien on your house when you lease their equipment ? That would interfere with, for instance, refinancing your home.

What's interesting as a physician I have people come in all the time thinking they know more than me about medicine. They are highly opinionated. While I respect their right to choose their own care I can see that decades of expierence to some people makes no difference. Same is probably true in the solar business.

I'm not a physician and I don't play on TV, but I was musing recently about answering the same questions on this forum countless times and seeing only more of the same ignorant behavior for my efforts and wondering if physicians feel similar after advising folks they could often do better for themselves in the quality of life dept. with only a little effort. Seems like everyone I speak with who ever read an article about solar believes they know more than me. I hear you.

What you hear about SolarCity is mostly correct. FWIW, It just may be your solar reading will impart more info about the subject than most solar peddler's will ever suspect. You'll know the answers to the questions you ask. The answers you get back can reveal a lot when searching for potential installers.

Residential solar is not rocket science. Reduce the required system size by use reduction and conservation as your lifestyle dictates, know how you pay for electricity and how that may be changing. Get familiar with something called PVWatts and figure out what bsize you want. Get several quotes after you decide what you want in terms of size/equipment, and know that most any equally sized system using quality panels from a reputable company will produce about equal annual output. The installer and their experience and reputation are about as important as equip. mfg. once you choose reputable equip. Takes a bit of homework, but the learning curve tends to be steep. An open attitude and fewer preconceived notions can act as a knowledge accelerator. As always, knowledge is power.

[solardreamer]

I assume you are talking damage from excess solar energy. It will likely need a battery and a way to use up excess energy or switch off the solar inverters. It's just a concept at this point. I wouldn't actually try it with more specifics.

Then there would be two disasters ( at least for you ). Do not attempt this it will end badly.

[solar_newbie]

You need an inverter capable of working without the grid, capable of disconnecting from the grid, capable of charging a battery, with two AC connections ( one for grid and one for backup circuit). Outback power, Snyder, and solarEdge make systems like this. SolarEdge is the new player on the market and is the inverter system for tesla powerwall and should be available before the end of the year.
These systems are more complex and expensive, and requre more electrical work as well as batteries to function.

Per enphase, the new batteries have inverter build in, just plug and play into the same enphase cable. The whole concept can be done by home owner. Have a breaker in the solar panel sub-panel and wire in the enphase cable. Mount battery in garage and plug in.
All will be controlled by envoy computer and user will control the envoy. All are AC work like install a new plug.