Strongly Considering Solar

[maximizese]

I financially dismissed solar for years because my wife and I would only use an average of 10kWh/day and our SCE bill would rarely be over $40. We'd use the central air conditioner from time to time to make sure it didn't break from non-use, and we'd let our house get into the low 80s before we buckled…I bought into the whole energy conservation thing when our local nuclear power plant was decommissioned. This summer, we've had a bit of home construction done and we've ran the AC a few times during our perpetual summer heat wave. Our SCE bill has been about $70 during the last few months with an average delay usage of 14kWh.

I plan to replace my wife's hybrid with 15-20 kWh PHEV, install radiant heated floors in the bathrooms, install a 5kWh steam shower, and run my AC like a normal person once we are generating some electricity ourselves. My question is, should I wait a year for all these things to fall in place before I go solar (I need approval from SCE to stay on the grid with net metering), or should I have a small 3.1kW design installed now and expand the system when my demand increases? I could potentially see our daily demand going to 30kWh.

I've had one bid through SolarMax for a 12 panel, 3.1kw system. I've got about 2,000 sq ft of unobstructed 180 degree south facing roof with a 23 degree tilt…and another 900 sq ft of partially shaded (during the winter) flat roof in southern California. I'd say my house is a perfect candidate for solar electric generation.

[J.P.M.]

Before you delve into solar:

1.) Fed. tax credits expire the end of next year (12/31/2016).

2.) If you have nat. gas service avail., use that as much as possible. It is much cheaper than electricity as a heating source.

3.) Buy/download "Solar For Dummies" and read it before you get more quotes. Knowledge is power. Get some of both by a read.

4.) If cost effectiveness is important to you, and with consumption as low as yours, maybe even after all the additional work you describe, solar may not be cost effective for you. I you do choose solar, the going rate around here is about $3.50/Watt. Choose quality vendors. A slight premium to an established vendor and getting your roof inspected/serviced are often worthwhile premiums. Buy cheap - buy twice.

5.) Don't panic, but check out the 5% net metering cap and figure that into you timing. CA net metering as we know it will be gone in VERY approx. 6 - 18 months with probably a real scramble and system price hikes near the end as the scramble to get in under the wire takes hold.

[maximizese]

Thanks JPM, I will definitely read up more. I don't mind paying the utilities for use of their grid to consumer and supply electricity, but I would like a clear and absolute schedule of fees. The open-endedness beyond June of 2016 has me a little concerned. However my biggest concern is not knowing how much more energy we'll be consuming in the next 2-15 years.

As for other energy sources, we have a tankless gas water heater with a thermostatic on-demand electric point of use water heater, gas range, gas fireplace, but electric oven (we often use our .8 cu ft convection toaster oven instead). Our gas bill is rarely over $7.50. We'll use the furnace from time to time during the winter where we'll see the bill up to $25. While we set the thermostat to 62, we use a 750/1500 watt micathermic radiant panel space heater in the bedroom overnight set at 65. If we had solar panels, I would be more inclined to turn it up to 68

[J.P.M.]

You're welcome.

You are unlikely to get a clear schedule of fees with that much certainty. I'd bet monkeys will fly out of my butt first. Probably ain't gonna' happen. For one thing, the POCOs can't predict the future as to their costs. Also, they have nothing to gain by being anywhere near transparent.

Also, while you may not know your future energy needs, they are, whether you accept the fact or not, one part of the cost structure in your electric bill that you have the most control over. It is completely within your power to use as much or as little electricity as you choose.

[sensij]

Thanks JPM, I will definitely read up more. I don't mind paying the utilities for use of their grid to consumer and supply electricity, but I would like a clear and absolute schedule of fees. The open-endedness beyond June of 2016 has me a little concerned. However my biggest concern is not knowing how much more energy we'll be consuming in the next 2-15 years.

In what way do you mean open ended beyond June 2016? There are some general guidelines by which the electric rates are developed, and examples of how SCE intends to implement the rate reform over the next 4 years. TOU plans will become more interesting in 2019 and beyond, when they become the default rate plan for everyone, but there will be a tiered plan to opt into for the foreseeable future.

With respect to net metering, SCE is not on track to hit the cap before the July 1, 2017 deadline. As long as your system is installed before then, you will be "grandfathered" for 20 years, and can count on full retail credit for what you generate over that time. Monthly minimums or fixed charges will take a bite out of some savings if you size too large.

[artemeus]

Does any one know how on track SDGE is with regards to net metering?

[sensij]

Does any one know how on track SDGE is with regards to net metering?

See the first post in this thread.

[artemeus]

See the first post in this thread.

Nice, thanks!

[MARKSDCA]

If you start with a 3000 watt system and then want to up-size later....you will need to re-apply for building permits and most definitely with your power company. That would mean that half of your system would be grandfathered into Net Metering (assuming you meet the deadline to begin with) and potentially the rest of your system might be ineligible if you do it too late.

I asked the same question to SDG&E and they told me that they don't grandfather you into net metering for future expansion. They approve you for XXXX watts and anything more you will need to re-apply when you want to expand.

That's why my current system is making gobs of energy that I'm not using. I will be getting an electric car and I overbuilt to accommodate that future need.....and I only wanted to do this solar install project ONCE!!

[maximizese]

If you start with a 3000 watt system and then want to up-size later....you will need to re-apply for building permits and most definitely with your power company. That would mean that half of your system would be grandfathered into Net Metering (assuming you meet the deadline to begin with) and potentially the rest of your system might be ineligible if you do it too late.

I asked the same question to SDG&E and they told me that they don't grandfather you into net metering for future expansion. They approve you for XXXX watts and anything more you will need to re-apply when you want to expand.

That's why my current system is making gobs of energy that I'm not using. I will be getting an electric car and I overbuilt to accommodate that future need.....and I only wanted to do this solar install project ONCE!!

I would love to be in your position, but I don't believe SCE will approve an overbuilt system. I have thought about boosting my electricity demand over the next months to get a larger system approved for net metering, but I don't want to be dishonest. The solar consultant I spoke with told me that SCE is a will allow about a 25% overbuild to consumption, and she felt like anything more wouldn't get approved.

Which EV car were you considering? I'm looking at the 2016 Chevy Volt, 2016 Hyundai Sonata PHEV, a used Ford Fusion PHEV, or a used Tesla Model S. The Honda Accord PHEV looked promising, but it's been discontinued after just a few years. These cars will demand anywhere between 9-23kWh per roundtrip commute for my wife.

[sensij]

Which EV car were you considering? I'm looking at the 2016 Chevy Volt, 2016 Hyundai Sonata PHEV, a used Ford Fusion PHEV, or a used Tesla Model S. The Honda Accord PHEV looked promising, but it's been discontinued after just a few years. These cars will demand anywhere between 9-23kWh per roundtrip commute for my wife.

I'm driving a Spark EV, and with reasonable driving it consumes only 200 wh / mi.

[Justjames]

Im not sure what your permit requirement but mine, moreno valley, we can install solar upto 100% usage of last 24 or 12 months whichever available. You might have to check on that since your history usage seem low.

On the other hand Im screwd too since I've been conservative this past year and also got two colege kids living with us full time just this past year as well. I expected to use a lot more energy but my history usage made me go smaller size system.

[solar_newbie]

I'm driving a Spark EV, and with reasonable driving it consumes only 200 wh / mi.

I am driving Spark EV to work. Round trip 60 miles (mostly highway). It states 5 miles/kwh. Since I lease for 10K per year, the cost is around 2000 KWH per year.

[MARKSDCA]

Im not sure what your permit requirement but mine, moreno valley, we can install solar upto 100% usage of last 24 or 12 months whichever available. You might have to check on that since your history usage seem low.

On the other hand Im screwd too since I've been conservative this past year and also got two colege kids living with us full time just this past year as well. I expected to use a lot more energy but my history usage made me go smaller size system.

I think it was a planner or a prospective contractor that was giving me a bid way back in April that told me to make a point to put on my net metering application that I was going to be purchasing an electric car and planned to install A/C. He kind of made a big deal about it.....as in: I had better not forget to mention that. I suspect he thought that they might deny a large system without it.

Frankly I don't understand why a public utility gets to dictate the policy about array size. You are free to triple your PURCHASE of their electricity at 35 cents/kWh if you buy a bunch of electric appliances or want to live in 65 degree cold during a heat wave. Obviously they don't want people opening solar farms on their property and selling power to the neighbors! But it's EASY to double your electric bill for a bunch of reasons. The fact that they won't "let" you put in 150-200% larger solar array based on projected future needs (electric car etc) is something I would strongly appeal.

[inetdog]

In some places the incentive program (which may be paid for in part by the utilities) is geared specifically to replacing residential consumption, not making money on excess production. That is one motivation for the capacity cap.
Remember that the utilities do not like giving you net metering, they are being forced to. So they will resist as strongly as they think they can get away with.