Im signing a contract, need advice quick.

[Justjames]

I finally decided to go green with solar and need some advices. Ive been in communicated with a few installers get all the quotes and some equipment, two of them are local and one nation.

My info, I live in SoCal riverside area, my yearly avg usage is around 8,300 kwh with avg bill 140 bucks a month. Im not gonna do any loan just buy system cash right out. I got roof on west side with plenty of room and no shade at all(2 story house, 3000sq feet) The quotes i got are
1. Local - 24 panel Q cell 265 with emphase micro inverter for 25800. I dont like the idea of micro inverter since more parts could gone wrong and warranty might not cover at least a labor.

2.huge nation company, the best on warrant with 30 years cover part and labor on equipment plus 10 years on roof. I Dont have any of equipment detail but quotes for 5.3 DCKWH for 27,000. This company will not use micro inverter, that all i know until i sign up and they send someone to check on my house/roof.

3. Another local but well known in san diago. I got quote for 22 panel Kyocera 265 with sunny boy 6000 for 24,000 dollars. This might be the best and cheapest set up for me, provide a little more than 100% my last year usuage, but warranty might not be as good as other one.

4. This quote I might end up sign for, 16 panel of sunpower e20/327 with sunny boy 5000. The total cost is 25,600. I like all the mfg warranty plus 10 years roof warranty from installer and also i have room if i want more panels.

Which quote shoul i sign up for? I can only install up to 100% of my previous year usage, and i have been really conservative with my energy usuage the past year. I would like to be able to set AC in my house a little cooler in future as well.

Please advice this noob, thanks

[J.P.M.]

I finally decided to go green with solar and need some advices. Ive been in communicated with a few installers get all the quotes and some equipment, two of them are local and one nation.

My info, I live in SoCal riverside area, my yearly avg usage is around 8,300 kwh with avg bill 140 bucks a month. Im not gonna do any loan just buy system cash right out. I got roof on west side with plenty of room and no shade at all(2 story house, 3000sq feet) The quotes i got are
1. Local - 24 panel Q cell 265 with emphase micro inverter for 25800. I dont like the idea of micro inverter since more parts could gone wrong and warranty might not cover at least a labor.

2.huge nation company, the best on warrant with 30 years cover part and labor on equipment plus 10 years on roof. I Dont have any of equipment detail but quotes for 5.3 DCKWH for 27,000. This company will not use micro inverter, that all i know until i sign up and they send someone to check on my house/roof.

3. Another local but well known in san diago. I got quote for 22 panel Kyocera 265 with sunny boy 6000 for 24,000 dollars. This might be the best and cheapest set up for me, provide a little more than 100% my last year usuage, but warranty might not be as good as other one.

4. This quote I might end up sign for, 16 panel of sunpower e20/327 with sunny boy 5000. The total cost is 25,600. I like all the mfg warranty plus 10 years roof warranty from installer and also i have room if i want more panels.

Which quote shoul i sign up for? I can only install up to 100% of my previous year usage, and i have been really conservative with my energy usuage the past year. I would like to be able to set AC in my house a little cooler in future as well.

Please advice this noob, thanks

Since you ask:

First, don't buy anything yet. Download "Solar for Dummies" and read it, especially the parts about conservation which is still the most cost effective way to reduce an electric bill.

Then, get your roof inspected and serviced as necessary. Cheap insurance. You will not regret doing it.

Next, run PVWatts after reading the info and help screens.

Then, read and understand how you are billed for electricity you use and check out T.O.U. pricing for possible savings.

Next, from the PVWatts exercise and your billing gained knowledge, figure out how much of your electrical load you want to replace. Often, and perhaps somewhat counterintuitive, less than 100% offset is often the most cost effective. After some consideration and dart throwing about long term future use, more than 100% offset is probably not cost effective. Don't oversize unless you want to leave $$ on the table.

Then, I'd suggest getting more quotes. Unless there's something unusual about your situation, paying more than about $3.50/Watt is probably leaving more money on the table.

Sunpower is good stuff but overpriced for what you get, and about the least cost effective way to get PV. Systems of the same (electrical) size, in the same location, orientation and service will produce about equal annual output - Sunpower's and everyone else's. The "super duper" S.P. warranty might be nice if panels failed a lot. They don't - at least not to the extent that the hefty S.P. upfront premium extracts. When panels do fail, it tends to be infant mortality and most everyone's warranty period will cover that.

Buy extra panels if it's a concern. As a last resort, buying the rip off extra warranty insurance most companies offer is still less expensive than S.P.

When buying residential PV, knowledge really is power. Acquire some solar knowledge and you'll gain the power to lower the probability of getting ripped off.

Good luck.

Take what you want of the above. Scrap the rest.

[josefontao]

I totally agree with JPM. You need to do your research first on what is best for your particular home and usage. I researched a full 6 months before I signed a contract.
With your usage of 8300kWh per year, you will not need anywhere near that many panels, specially if you switch to a TOU plan with with your utility company. I use 12000kWh/year and 18 panels will be able to offset all of my billl.
The companies that gave you those quotes also seem to be a little high. There is lots of money on the table that you are giving away.

Like JPM said, stop, do the research, ask questions on the forums, read other posts and you will see that you can get away with a much smaller system and you should also get much better quotes from other companies or even with those companies if you negotiate the price down. Everything is negotiable.

[solar_newbie]

I would say not to pay more than $3.5/watt. You need to take a look also on your electrical side. For your usage, you would need 40 Amp breaker. If you do not have enough free space and free AMP on your house sub-panel, it will be a mess and you need to sort it out with the installer to include into the quote.

[Justjames]

Thanks all for responds. I read solar for dummies check TOU.

First of all my house was built in 2006 so pretty much in good shape with roof on west side only. Im with morena valley utilities company and TOU might not suitable for me, since i alway have someone at home during the day.I try to conserv energy as mush as i could so this summer my energy usage is down about 20% from last year.

Im still a little bit confused with PVWATTS. I enter all info and with around 5.23kwh, I would get 8081 kwh which a bit lower than what i need yearly.

About $3.5/watt, how do i get quote that low? Anyone have good installer that can recommend to me? How do i negotiate after getting the quotes in paper? Im very noob to all these but want to get solar done so i can take advantage of federal tax credit. What avg cost in riverside/inland empire area to have solar install?

I think a lot of solar installer quote use base on what you pay for electric bill. I am on tier system with the lowest 0.14/kwh up to 0.30 the heighest
James

[foo1bar]

I think a lot of solar installer quote use base on what you pay for electric bill. I am on tier system with the lowest 0.14/kwh up to 0.30 the heighest

That's a good part of their sales tactics. It's effective.

I don't know who are installers in your area.
BUT this forum does have a sponsor - http://www.solarreviews.com/ that might be handy for you.

How much do you pay in income taxes each year?
If 30% of the install price is less than that, then you don't need to be in a huge hurry. Because you'll be able to take the credit on yoru 2016 taxes, whether it's finished Jan 1, 2016 or Dec. 31, 2016.

I wouldn't wait 6 months - but IMO you could wait 2 months - and schedule them to do the install in Feb or March. I expect they'll be really busy trying to get installs done in Oct-Dec. next year - so I wouldn't wait too long.
(Of course if the laws change and it extends beyond 2016, then that changes things)

[J.P.M.]

That's a good part of their sales tactics. It's effective.

If 30% of the install price is less than that, then you don't need to be in a huge hurry. Because you'll be able to take the credit on yoru 2016 taxes, whether it's finished Jan 1, 2016 or Dec. 31, 2016.

I wouldn't wait 6 months - but IMO you could wait 2 months - and schedule them to do the install in Feb or March. I expect they'll be really busy trying to get installs done in Oct-Dec. next year - so I wouldn't wait too long.
(Of course if the laws change and it extends beyond 2016, then that changes things)

If you are NOT up & running before 12/31/2015, you will be INeligible to take a tax credit in that year. If you ARE up & running by 12/31/2015, you WILL be able to take the tax credit over tax years 2015 AND 2016.

[Justjames]

That why im trying to get it done this year so i can take avantage of two years federal tax credit. The system has to be turn on before dec 31st. If i have to claim tax next year i might be able to get back maybe 80%

[J.P.M.]

Thanks all for responds. I read solar for dummies check TOU.

First of all my house was built in 2006 so pretty much in good shape with roof on west side only. Im with morena valley utilities company and TOU might not suitable for me, since i alway have someone at home during the day.I try to conserv energy as mush as i could so this summer my energy usage is down about 20% from last year.

Im still a little bit confused with PVWATTS. I enter all info and with around 5.23kwh, I would get 8081 kwh which a bit lower than what i need yearly.

About $3.5/watt, how do i get quote that low? Anyone have good installer that can recommend to me? How do i negotiate after getting the quotes in paper? Im very noob to all these but want to get solar done so i can take advantage of federal tax credit. What avg cost in riverside/inland empire area to have solar install?

I think a lot of solar installer quote use base on what you pay for electric bill. I am on tier system with the lowest 0.14/kwh up to 0.30 the heighest
James

Note that some serious conservation efforts may well have reduced your required system size by some, thereby saving you probably something off a system price, and reducing your bill to boot. Another example of how conservation beats solar in the cost effective race.

1.) On PVWatts - what's your location, tilt & azimuth, and what derate are you using ? Use an 8 - 10% derate and check the PVWatts help screens for proper input guidance. That estimated long term ave. output seems maybe a bit low, but not terribly so.

2.) You get that low by shopping around, being informed about what you want, what things cost and conveying to vendors that you are not some solar ignorant rube - and doing so in a professional and non rude manner. Others in the I.E. and San Diego co. have done as well or better with reputable local electrical contractors. Just don't shoot yourself in the foot and forget you're after most bang for your buck - not necessarily low buck. A good vendor is worth a tough but fairly negotiated premium. As for negotiating tactics/skills - I'd respectfully suggest you buy a book. That's a big subject.

3.) In what follows, keep in mind rates will be changing. But, if you stay on tiered rates, it may not be cost effective to replace your entire load with solar. Do some homework on tier prices, and tier SIZES - basically, learn how to calculate your bill the way the POCO does it - only by hand. You will see that it MAY make more sense to NOT replace ALL of the lowest tier stuff you buy. See PVWatts info/help screens for the ESTIMATED cost of solar using something called LOCE analysis then check that against the cost of the lowest tier rate you pay. None of this is easy, but it will give you a self education that may save a few bucks if you are diligent, curious and get to be a sharp negotiator.

Take what you want of the above. Scrap the rest.

[solarix]

I vote for option #3. Even that one is kinda high priced to me, but then again - the end of year rush is already on so good luck getting busy installers to reduce prices. Might be better off to wait till 1st quarter when things get slow and prices are better.
Do you see how government subsidies and tax benefits distort the marketplace?

[solar pete]

I finally decided to go green with solar and need some advices. Ive been in communicated with a few installers get all the quotes and some equipment, two of them are local and one nation.

My info, I live in SoCal riverside area, my yearly avg usage is around 8,300 kwh with avg bill 140 bucks a month. Im not gonna do any loan just buy system cash right out. I got roof on west side with plenty of room and no shade at all(2 story house, 3000sq feet) The quotes i got are
1. Local - 24 panel Q cell 265 with emphase micro inverter for 25800. I dont like the idea of micro inverter since more parts could gone wrong and warranty might not cover at least a labor.

2.huge nation company, the best on warrant with 30 years cover part and labor on equipment plus 10 years on roof. I Dont have any of equipment detail but quotes for 5.3 DCKWH for 27,000. This company will not use micro inverter, that all i know until i sign up and they send someone to check on my house/roof.

3. Another local but well known in san diago. I got quote for 22 panel Kyocera 265 with sunny boy 6000 for 24,000 dollars. This might be the best and cheapest set up for me, provide a little more than 100% my last year usuage, but warranty might not be as good as other one.

4. This quote I might end up sign for, 16 panel of sunpower e20/327 with sunny boy 5000. The total cost is 25,600. I like all the mfg warranty plus 10 years roof warranty from installer and also i have room if i want more panels.

Which quote shoul i sign up for? I can only install up to 100% of my previous year usage, and i have been really conservative with my energy usuage the past year. I would like to be able to set AC in my house a little cooler in future as well.

Please advice this noob, thanks

Howdy number 3 looks the good to me, make sure you check out the installer, cheer and good luck with it

[Ian S]

That why im trying to get it done this year so i can take avantage of two years federal tax credit. The system has to be turn on before dec 31st. If i have to claim tax next year i might be able to get back maybe 80%

Rather than lose out on some of that tax credit, if you're are in a position to convert a portion of a traditional tax-deferred IRA to a Roth IRA, that might be a worthwhile way to fully utilize the tax credit in one year.

[Justjames]

1.) On PVWatts - what's your location, tilt & azimuth, and what derate are you using ? Use an 8 - 10% derate and check the PVWatts help screens for proper input guidance. That estimated long term ave. output seems maybe a bit low, but not terribly so.

I have west roof so i have Azimuth 270, Tilt 26, derate? if you meant system lost i left at default which is 14 or 15. Do i get it right? BTW I change inverter to 95% efficiency.

I also get another quote just now for solarworld panel
22 panel 280 watt, SMA inverter. 6.16kwh for 23927. The warranty seem good 30 years bumper to bumper with 10 years roof warranty.

[J.P.M.]

I have west roof so i have Azimuth 270, Tilt 26, derate? if you meant system lost i left at default which is 14 or 15. Do i get it right? BTW I change inverter to 95% efficiency.

I also get another quote just now for solarworld panel
22 panel 280 watt, SMA inverter. 6.16kwh for 23927. The warranty seem good 30 years bumper to bumper with 10 years roof warranty.

I'd make the derate about 8-10%. Some opinion has PVWatts as about 10% conservative or so. A numerically lower derate is an attempt to account for that. Keep in mind that PVWatts are estimates of long term average output. every actual year will be different just like the weather.

BTW, that's a 6.16 kW system, not 6.16kwh. System size is in kiloWatts. System output is in kiloWatt-hours.