Sunpower X21 vs Suniva Optimus Mono325

[madas]

Hello all,

I've just started to dip my toe into the solar world and am in the process of getting quotes. We are located in Connecticut.

We don't have a ton of useable roof space but have a large consumption due to our 2x 4ton waterfurnace geo units. I'm very interested in the Sunpower X21 345's but the installer is quoting an additional $2/watt over the cost of Suniva Optimus Mono 325 panels. Does this sound correct? I know there is a price increase for Sunpower but I had believed it to be a small increase. At $2/watt I would never break even.

I'll post further details and questions when I have the proposals from a couple of other companies but at this point I just wanted to get an idea of what i'm looking at.

M

[Naptown]

The Suniva panels will be much larger than the SP. is it possible to get the same wattage up there with them or at least close? If so use the Suniva.

[madas]

I can fit about 40 Suneva panels (~13kW), but I believe I can fit 52 Sunpower (~18kW).

But 13kW at X/Watt or 18kW At (X+2)/Watt doesn't seem like a good option even though it gives me the additional capacity.

Does $2/watt sound reasonable as the incremental cost?

[Naptown]

Seems a bit high
Did both specify optomizers for the 2014 electric code? That could account for some of the difference.

[madas]

He had SolarEdge optimizers on the Suniva panels. He hasn't even given me a formal proposal yet for the Sunpower panels as $2/watt would push this way out of the reasonable zone for me so I haven't been chasing him until I could get some background.

[droppinloads]

I was going to start a new thread, but I'll stick this here since it also involves the SP X21-345's.

I'm a newb also getting ready to pull trigger on a solar setup for my house. I've done a ton of research (a lot of it on here- thanks all!) and I've narrowed it down to a very reputable installer after getting a few quotes. I'm trying to decide between the Sunpower X21-345's & LG NEON 2 Modules (LG315N1C-G4). I have limited roof space- the installer thinks we can only do 16 panels (of either SP or LG). I use approx. 6600Kwh/ year. So from these systems i'm looking at getting about 70-80% of my power needs covered. Question is, is it worth going with Sunpower at such a premium?

LG System:
5W
$4.40/W (before tax incentives)

SP System:
5.5W
$5.09/W (before tax incentives)

I do plan to be in this house for at least 20years, so long-term I was originally thinking that the SP system would be worth the premium. But i started crunching some more numbers & now I'm not so sure. This is for a grid-connected system in Vermont. I was also planning on installing a mini-split system for heat, which would obviously increase my energy usage, but I'm holding off for a while since oil prices seem to be staying low, at least for this upcoming winter.

Sorry if i'm hijacking here, but like the OP i'm comparing the X21's with other offers...

[madas]

your difference is much less than mine for the SP panels. I wonder if one of the pros can comment on whether the Suniva panels I was quoted as a base and the LG panels you were quoted as a base are similarly priced?

droppinloads - is that per watt price before the state and federal incentive? or just before the federal incentive (tax credit) ?

[J.P.M.]

As for price, I'm ignorant of CT pricing but $2/Watt spread seems high.

As for S.P. - great stuff, but usually overpriced for what you get. Even so, that $2/Watt looks really bad.

If you are planning a 20 yr. lifecycle, the cost effectiveness of S.P. MAY improve, but I'd think about total cost of what you can fit in the allotted space using different panels - S.P. and others, and what is the net present value of the cost of the difference in production of different systems over the life of those systems.

That is, S.P. will be a bigger (Wattage) system and will cost more/Watt but will generate more power over 20 yrs. due to its size (and probably not a lot more per installed Watt) So, will that NPV of the extra generation of the S.P. be => the extra up front cost ? That takes a bit of a crystal ball about future elec. costs, etc.,and some life cycle costing, but the same assumptions will generally apply to any system size and equipment. It comes down to a bit of a gamble on the future as to how you think you can get the most bang for your buck. FWIW, that most bang is usually conservation before solar.

[droppinloads]

As for price, I'm ignorant of CT pricing but $2/Watt spread seems high.

As for S.P. - great stuff, but usually overpriced for what you get. Even so, that $2/Watt looks really bad.

If you are planning a 20 yr. lifecycle, the cost effectiveness of S.P. MAY improve, but I'd think about total cost of what you can fit in the allotted space using different panels - S.P. and others, and what is the net present value of the cost of the difference in production of different systems over the life of those systems.

That is, S.P. will be a bigger (Wattage) system and will cost more/Watt but will generate more power over 20 yrs. due to its size (and probably not a lot more per installed Watt) So, will that NPV of the extra generation of the S.P. be => the extra up front cost ? That takes a bit of a crystal ball about future elec. costs, etc.,and some life cycle costing, but the same assumptions will generally apply to any system size and equipment. It comes down to a bit of a gamble on the future as to how you think you can get the most bang for your buck. FWIW, that most bang is usually conservation before solar.

Yeah that's basically what I've been doing. I obviously can't predict electric rates/ usage 10 years into the future, let alone 20. But I think that some assumptions are safe. My appliances are all new, so I won't be replacing them with anything more efficient for at least 10yrs (hopefully!). Both vehicles i have are new, so again hopefully 10yrs on that. Electric vehicle is possible after that time, assuming technology is there for a decent AWD EV. It's also I think safe to assume that electric rates will increase modestly over time. They could increase drastically, but that would only help the solar payoff happen sooner regardless of panel choice. I doubt very much rates will decrease over time.

I think if anything I could assume that I'd consume less, not more power over then next 10yrs, as we move to more efficient light bulbs & other technologies. I currently use a DVR which i'll be getting rid of & they are apparently a big energy eater. The only big power increase I foresee is the addition of a mini-split, but that would be done to offset oil usage, so I'd be coming out ahead there anyway.

I like that SP are american made, as I try to buy american when i can. I also like the longer warranty. Both of these things bring some value that i can't really calculate. At this point I'm probably pushing the whole project off until Springtime. By the time our installers can be scheduled the panels wouldn't be installed until mid-late October. I also have to have 2 trees removed & my tree-guy is backed up until early October.

[madas]

droppinloads - were the quotes you got before or after the state rebate? do you know what level of rebate Vermont give you?

[J.P.M.]

Yeah that's basically what I've been doing. I obviously can't predict electric rates/ usage 10 years into the future, let alone 20. But I think that some assumptions are safe. My appliances are all new, so I won't be replacing them with anything more efficient for at least 10yrs (hopefully!). Both vehicles i have are new, so again hopefully 10yrs on that. Electric vehicle is possible after that time, assuming technology is there for a decent AWD EV. It's also I think safe to assume that electric rates will increase modestly over time. They could increase drastically, but that would only help the solar payoff happen sooner regardless of panel choice. I doubt very much rates will decrease over time.

I think if anything I could assume that I'd consume less, not more power over then next 10yrs, as we move to more efficient light bulbs & other technologies. I currently use a DVR which i'll be getting rid of & they are apparently a big energy eater. The only big power increase I foresee is the addition of a mini-split, but that would be done to offset oil usage, so I'd be coming out ahead there anyway.

I like that SP are american made, as I try to buy american when i can. I also like the longer warranty. Both of these things bring some value that i can't really calculate. At this point I'm probably pushing the whole project off until Springtime. By the time our installers can be scheduled the panels wouldn't be installed until mid-late October. I also have to have 2 trees removed & my tree-guy is backed up until early October.

Sounds like a plan to me. For the record, S.P. panels are mostly foreign made with most manufacturing being done in the Philippines and So. Africa with a small mfg. presence in Malpitas, CA. Sunpower itself is majority owned by the French energy (oil) company Total.

[droppinloads]

droppinloads - were the quotes you got before or after the state rebate? do you know what level of rebate Vermont give you?

Those quotes were before incentives. VT's incentives are more on installation of heat pumps. For the panels themselves, there's no VT sales tax, but other than that I don't think there are incentives through the state

[madas]

Thats a good price, my first quote came in over $6/watt for Sunpower before incentives - some of the solar guys in our area cover other parts of New England. Do you know if that company covers Southern New England as well?

Connecticut provides an incentive to installers based on performance up to a max of $0.54/W for 0-10kW and $0.40/W for 10-20kW. That adds up.

[droppinloads]

Thats a good price, my first quote came in over $6/watt for Sunpower before incentives - some of the solar guys in our area cover other parts of New England. Do you know if that company covers Southern New England as well?

Connecticut provides an incentive to installers based on performance up to a max of $0.54/W for 0-10kW and $0.40/W for 10-20kW. That adds up.

The company i'm working with only works in VT. I thought the SP price was a touch high, but i guess not...

I'm still leaning towards the LG's

[madas]

Thats a shame - I have two more companies coming this week so i'll see if they offer more compelling options. I'd be interested if anyone else in CT has any recent quotes to see what kind of rates/watt they are being offered