New solarEdge pv system owner needs help with understanding monitoring

[arborlinden]

Hi. New to forum and new to PV. Just had SolarEdge 5.13kwp system involved with optimisers and can get to see readouts and graphs on SolarEdge monitoring portal. Figures don't mean much to me at moment so would appreciate some guidance. Obvious questions are "is my system working correctly" "Is my system working as well as it should" "How can I compare performance with other nearby sytems"
I have found a site called pvoutput.org which I believe can receive performance figures direct from the SolarEdge monitoring service but I have not quite worked out how to do that yet. Location of system Norwich Norfolk UK with JA percium panels and optimisers and Ibeam immersion heater feed.
Any words of wisdom would be appreciated
arborlinden

[solarix]

The SolarEdge portal will give you a metric called "Monthly Performance" in kWh/kW which is a good, stable metric of how your system is doing. Being averaged over a month, it pretty well removes weather variations. It does vary seasonally of course, but is very consistent year after year. As your system gets some years under operation, they will also show a year over year comparison which is an excellent indicator of performance as well.
I can see monitoring on several SolarEdge systems that we installed, and it is interesting how one system that is mounted at 20deg tilt reliably beats my 15deg system all winter and then my system wins during the summer.
In my area, systems are currently running about 167kWh/kW/month and 1750kWh/kW/year.

[arborlinden]

follow up to my post

So far the SolarEdge monitoring seems to be a very good weather reporter telling me when there is cloud between my panels and the sun or, worst still when they are rain clouds. One of my panels seems to be an outlier consistently producing about 14% less output than its neighbours. Whether this means that it is in some way defective I have no idea and I have asked my installer to have a look at the figures and see if it is meeting the manufacturers spec.
My installed solar meter only tells me accumulated generated figures: the ones I report to my FIT manager every three months I suppose to get my payout. Apart from that my supply meter tells me when I am importing by flashing and when I am exporting by a steady red light. There is no indication of the level of export though the flashing light does give me a rough idea of consumption by flashing faster as consumption rises.
I have googled monitoring options and have sent for a device that states it will tell me exactly how much is being generated, used and exported in real time. I assume most of you early adopters will already have such a device and I would welcome any views as to their accuracy and usefulness.
arborlinden

[sensij]

The accuracy of monitoring devices will vary. Some are revenue grade, with accuracy of 0.5% or better, others may only be accurate to 2% or worse across their entire range, but may be somewhat more accurate in narrow bands. What device or system did you get? I am happy with my system (EKM meter + Rainforest Automation Eagle to read the power company's meter). Here in CA, we don't have FiT, so without installing 3rd party monitoring, the inverter is the only source of information for how much is generated.

With your SolarEdge system, here in the US, their inverters tend to over-report energy generated by a few percent, but are self-reported to stay within 5% accuracy. SolarEdge will easily make data available for upload by PVOutput.org, once your installer gives you an API key. If you can find some other installations near you, especially with a similar array orientation, you can get some contect to the numbers to watch your systems health.

Is the low performing panel near a shade producing object, like a vent or a chimney? If not, you might want to just take a look at it and see if it needs to be cleaned.

[arborlinden]

The accuracy of monitoring devices will vary. Some are revenue grade, with accuracy of 0.5% or better, others may only be accurate to 2% or worse across their entire range, but may be somewhat more accurate in narrow bands. What device or system did you get? I am happy with my system (EKM meter + Rainforest Automation Eagle to read the power company's meter). Here in CA, we don't have FiT, so without installing 3rd party monitoring, the inverter is the only source of information for how much is generated.

With your SolarEdge system, here in the US, their inverters tend to over-report energy generated by a few percent, but are self-reported to stay within 5% accuracy. SolarEdge will easily make data available for upload by PVOutput.org, once your installer gives you an API key. If you can find some other installations near you, especially with a similar array orientation, you can get some contect to the numbers to watch your systems health.

Is the low performing panel near a shade producing object, like a vent or a chimney? If not, you might want to just take a look at it and see if it needs to be cleaned.

+
Thank you for your repsonse.
My system is SolarEdge SE5000 inverter with 18 JA solar percium 285w panels and SolarEdge optimisers which are supposed to have an efficiency of over 20%. There is no shading and the panel in question was underperforming from day one so soiling not a question unless the installers messed it up. The monitoring is done by solarEdge themselves and accessible from their web site. I have not yet asked installer for an API key to upload readings to PVoutput.org. as I am waiting for him to respond to my request to check on the low output panel figures. Be interesting to see how quickly he responds to that request!
My inverter is installed in the loft which I understand is done to get it as near as possible to the panels to reduce DC transmission loss. I wont say I can't get to see it but crawing through a hatch less wide than my shoulders, stepping across rafters I can't see because of the nasty irritating insulation and sweating like mad means another sort of monitoring is desirable.
The web site does get its figures from the inverter I suppose but the technical figures don't mean much to me yet.
I am not familiar with your EKM meter + Rainforest Automation Eagle monitoring but have googled them and they seem to give consumption figures only. Since my house generation meter and the on-line reporting are reporting only solar performance figures and my only other information is my supplier meter which simply tells me if I am net supplying or net consuming I am not in a position to intelligently exploit the solar generation though my I-Boost device does switch on my hot water immersion heater when I am exporting: trouble is it does not switch off the gas boiler so the water is usually hot anyway. I've yet to devise a way of exploiting that so at the moment I am trying a 30 min gas boost at 0300 and a 30 min gas boost at 2300.
The device I've ordered is called a Eco-Eye electricity monitor which, with the help of three clips on to measure solar generation, house consumtion and house feedout promises to give instant readouts of status at all time to a wireless monitor with an alarm if the house goes to net import.
Sorry to hear you do not get FIT though I am led to believe you actually get to see the sun more than 10 days a year. Here it seems I will get a few cents for 50% of all units generated even if I don't export any. However our government is not stupid and I fear that during the working day in our household the export percentage is much higher.

[sensij]

If you are getting access to data through the online portal, there is not really any additional information to be gained by looking at the inverter directly. Did you installer give you a public link to your SolarEdge page? If so, you could share it and perhaps get more insight into your performance questions. If not, you could request they enable that link when they provide the API key to you.

The meter you bought looks relatively straightforward. Battery operated might get annoying, and there is nothing published with respect to accuracy. I would hope for +/-5% from it, you could contact them to know for sure.

[arborlinden]

If you are getting access to data through the online portal, there is not really any additional information to be gained by looking at the inverter directly. Did you installer give you a public link to your SolarEdge page? If so, you could share it and perhaps get more insight into your performance questions. If not, you could request they enable that link when they provide the API key to you.

The meter you bought looks relatively straightforward. Battery operated might get annoying, and there is nothing published with respect to accuracy. I would hope for +/-5% from it, you could contact them to know for sure.

thanks for the advice. I will ask about a public link.

[arborlinden]

Sensij.
[QUOTE= Did you installer give you a public link to your SolarEdge page? If so, you could share it and perhaps get more insight into your performance questions. If not, you could request they enable that link when they provide the API key to you..[/QUOTE]

My installer seems to think that giving me his API might prevent him monitoring my system. Could you tell me how this API works?
Can you explain what a public link is. I have a link to the SolarEdge portal but I understand it is only good for one email address and wouldn't work for anyone else. Is this correct?
sorry not allowed to pm you direct as not enough posts.

[sensij]

Sensij.


My installer seems to think that giving me his API might prevent him monitoring my system. Could you tell me how this API works?
Can you explain what a public link is. I have a link to the SolarEdge portal but I understand it is only good for one email address and wouldn't work for anyone else. Is this correct?
sorry not allowed to pm you direct as not enough posts.

The API is a web service that allows data stored in SolarEdge's monitoring portal to be queried over the internet. The full API specification can be found here. Fortunately, PVOutput.org users do not need to understand the details of how the API works, because that site's developers have created a query that pulls the information in which most users are interested.

The API key is an authentication token that helps protect the servers running the webservice, preventing a single user from overloading the system with requests, and also assuring that access to each individual system is limited to users for whom access is appropriate. That access list is controlled by the system's installer.

Your installer does not need to share their *own* API key, which would give you monitoring access to any of the sites they have installed. An API key can be created for each individial system, giving access to only that system. If your installer is unsure of how to do that, SolarEdge tech support can help, but here is a short version of steps that I would take:

1) From the installer login, drill down into the desired system (yours).
2) Choose "Admin", and the "Site Details" tab
3) At the bottom of the page (under the location settings), check off the box that allows API access. Send to you the API key and Site ID.
4) While your installer is at it, they could enable a "Public" page, and send you the Public Address as well. This would allow you to share your monitoring portal web page without restricting it to just one email address.

None of this will affect your installer's own monitoring / admin access, nor will it give you the power to change any settings that would affect the way in which they set your system up.

[arborlinden]

The API is a web service that allows data stored in SolarEdge's monitoring portal to be queried over the internet. The full API specification can be found here. Fortunately, PVOutput.org users do not need to understand the details of how the API works, because that site's developers have created a query that pulls the information in which most users are interested.

Now that makes sense; no wonder installer was worried about giving me his own API key.

I have taken the liberty of emailing him with your intelligence and also suggested that he generate a new personal API key for himself. Seems he gave it out to someone before and can now no longer monitor that particular installation.

[pamalot]

I'd be interested to know how your monitor compares in accuracy to the inverter kWh readings. Your eco-eye monitor only seems to measure the current and doesn't take into account the voltage and power factor, they are probably assumed to be static values e.g 240v, which of course they are not, they vary constantly through the day. I came across the below a few weeks back:



from someone in the UK who is also using one of these 'current' only type of monitors. It took some looking to find a monitor that actually measures the voltage, like real electricity meters do, so it appears kWh accuracy is not a priority to the average Joe for most aftermarket solar energy monitors. The Smappee monitor (which I have, but I'm not sure if it's available in England) and the Energy Detective were the only ones from memory that I classed as accurate, as they measured the voltage, along with the current. Any other monitor that doesn't measure the voltage and take into account the power factor is probably going to be in the accuracy realms of the above table. Your utility meter should be about +/-1% out and if your inverter is also measuring kWh correctly (i.e. current, voltage and powerfactor) it should also be +/-1%. So if you get some time it would be interesting to see how your monitor compares in kWh reading to your utility and FIT meter. I did the same with my Smappee monitor a few months back and was releieved to find it was +/-1% and so it should be... as it wasn't cheap.

[sensij]

The default monitoring offered by a SolarEdge inverter is only rated for +/- 5%. The TED5000 and Smappee may achieve 1% some or most of the time, but since neither is certified revenue grade, I wouldn't count on it. If you want truly accurate remote monitoring, a revenue grade device like (Wattnode, EKM, Dent, Wattvision, etc) is the way to go, although you might miss out on the appliance detection capabilities that something like the Smappee can offer.

[arborlinden]

I'd be interested to know how your monitor compares in accuracy to the inverter kWh readings. Your eco-eye monitor only seems to measure the current and doesn't take into account the voltage and power factor, they are probably assumed to be static values e.g 240v, which of course they are not, they vary constantly through the day. I came across the below a few weeks back:



from someone in the UK who is also using one of these 'current' only type of monitors. It took some looking to find a monitor that actually measures the voltage, like real electricity meters do, so it appears kWh accuracy is not a priority to the average Joe for most aftermarket solar energy monitors. The Smappee monitor (which I have, but I'm not sure if it's available in England) and the Energy Detective were the only ones from memory that I classed as accurate, as they measured the voltage, along with the current. Any other monitor that doesn't measure the voltage and take into account the power factor is probably going to be in the accuracy realms of the above table. Your utility meter should be about +/-1% out and if your inverter is also measuring kWh correctly (i.e. current, voltage and powerfactor) it should also be +/-1%. So if you get some time it would be interesting to see how your monitor compares in kWh reading to your utility and FIT meter. I did the same with my Smappee monitor a few months back and was releieved to find it was +/-1% and so it should be... as it wasn't cheap.

Have googled Smappee monitor and it is available in UK but it appears to be equiped with only one current sensor unlike the Eco-eye so I can't see how it can be informative. TED seems to be purely for USA but once again mentions only one current detector.

[DanKegel]

The default monitoring offered by a SolarEdge inverter is only rated for +/- 5%

Thanks for posting that number, I couldn't find it when I was looking the other day.
Do you happen to have a link to the datasheet it comes from?

[arborlinden]

I'd be interested to know how your monitor compares in accuracy to the inverter kWh readings. Your eco-eye monitor only seems to measure the current and doesn't take into account the voltage and power factor, they are probably assumed to be static values e.g 240v, which of course they are not, they vary constantly through the day. I came across the below a few weeks back:



from someone in the UK who is also using one of these 'current' only type of monitors. It took some looking to find a monitor that actually measures the voltage, like real electricity meters do, so it appears kWh accuracy is not a priority to the average Joe for most aftermarket solar energy monitors. The Smappee monitor (which I have, but I'm not sure if it's available in England) and the Energy Detective were the only ones from memory that I classed as accurate, as they measured the voltage, along with the current. Any other monitor that doesn't measure the voltage and take into account the power factor is probably going to be in the accuracy realms of the above table. Your utility meter should be about +/-1% out and if your inverter is also measuring kWh correctly (i.e. current, voltage and powerfactor) it should also be +/-1%. So if you get some time it would be interesting to see how your monitor compares in kWh reading to your utility and FIT meter. I did the same with my Smappee monitor a few months back and was releieved to find it was +/-1% and so it should be... as it wasn't cheap.

Have googled Smappee monitor and it is available in UK but it appears to be equiped with only one current sensor unlike the Eco-eye so I can't see how it can be informative. TED seems to be purely for USA but once again mentions only one current detector.