Solar City

[paris401]

All I can say these SC sales are well trained and I would love to hire them.... on y:

I don't see em as so well trained... when I got their quote, and others, I decided to buy elsewhere.. when I told the solarcity salesman , he started to go ballistic... the next sound he heard was the click of me hanging up... maybe they r well trained, but not this one...

[silversaver]

about 70% of solar owners lease the system. Most of friends around me whom lease their solar system telling me why I paid cash when solar are FREE....... One of my client who just signed a 6.6kW DC pre-paid lease for $21000.....

All I can say these SC sales are well trained and I would love to hire them.... on the other side.... signed a 20 or 25yrs lease contract thinking they can walk out anytime?

[J.P.M.]

I'm not defending SolarCity, but all the leasing companies do payment escalators. Not only that but our whole freaking world uses compounding interest. "They" keep inflating the money supply by a "tolerable" bit every year and before you know it, the currency isn't worth crap. You know those little penny trays alongside your average cash register, well now I notice they're starting to have nickles and dimes in them now. You can't buy anything for less than a quarter anymore. Why even keep accounting to less than a dollar? Once upon a time, you could actually buy things for a penny believe it or not!
By the time your solar payment escalates to double what it is now, the money will be really worth-less (and of course, you'll be making a lot more dough per hour and the payment will seem miniscule....) what a deal! But really, how long can this monetary ponzi scheme keep going on? The financial world has to blow up sooner or later and what you really want is to own your own electric production outright - not be beholden to some big company.

I believe the idea of compound interest has been with us for quite some time now. As for lease payment escalators, that's one of those things that are usually dealt with by something called negotiation.

[Spektre]

I'm not defending SolarCity, but all the leasing companies do payment escalators. Not only that but our whole freaking world uses compounding interest. "They" keep inflating the money supply by a "tolerable" bit every year and before you know it, the currency isn't worth crap. You know those little penny trays alongside your average cash register, well now I notice they're starting to have nickles and dimes in them now. You can't buy anything for less than a quarter anymore. Why even keep accounting to less than a dollar? Once upon a time, you could actually buy things for a penny believe it or not!
By the time your solar payment escalates to double what it is now, the money will be really worth-less (and of course, you'll be making a lot more dough per hour and the payment will seem miniscule....) what a deal! But really, how long can this monetary ponzi scheme keep going on? The financial world has to blow up sooner or later and what you really want is to own your own electric production outright - not be beholden to some big company.

But that's the whole bizarre point - Solar City has a payment escalator on their non-lease, non-PPA, loan program!

If I'm 'buying' my PV power generation system, I don't expect that my purchase price payback is compounding. I certainly would never buy any retail item that way, regardless of how long it took for me to pay it back. That's kind of the beauty of a 30 year fixed mortgage - in 15-20 years, your payment stayed the same while you got annual raises (hopefully) and your house payment is relatively less of a burden financially than when you bought it.

[solarix]

I'm not defending SolarCity, but all the leasing companies do payment escalators. Not only that but our whole freaking world uses compounding interest. "They" keep inflating the money supply by a "tolerable" bit every year and before you know it, the currency isn't worth crap. You know those little penny trays alongside your average cash register, well now I notice they're starting to have nickles and dimes in them now. You can't buy anything for less than a quarter anymore. Why even keep accounting to less than a dollar? Once upon a time, you could actually buy things for a penny believe it or not!
By the time your solar payment escalates to double what it is now, the money will be really worth-less (and of course, you'll be making a lot more dough per hour and the payment will seem miniscule....) what a deal! But really, how long can this monetary ponzi scheme keep going on? The financial world has to blow up sooner or later and what you really want is to own your own electric production outright - not be beholden to some big company.

[Spektre]

In my area, we're are getting slaughtered in sales by SC. Despite their high prices and cheap quality, people seem to really go for the big company line. Being endorsed and promoted by the local big-box store helps a lot I'm sure. The leasing companies are all playing the same game though. Jack the retail price up just as far as the IRS allows to get the maximum tax credit, then pass that along to the customer in lower monthly payments to get below what they are currently paying the utility. The "fixed" monthly payment just means the payments are determined and set in advance - not that they are the same throughout the term. If you want all payments the same, that means the initial payments are higher and blows the savings advantage.
Bottom line is if you can afford to buy (or get a loan for) your solar system and use the tax credits yourself, you will be way better off than a lease. The maintenance and repair costs on solar are minimal - why shell out for sure to the leasing company for that? Leases are for someone who really wants to "go solar" but can't afford it and doesn't have any tax liability either.

I think they mesmerize you with how easy it all is - they will in fact lower your monthly/annual bill and you really don't have to lift a finger.

Oh, and they'll tell you because they're so big they will be around in 10, 20, up to 30 years to swap out your bad inverter at no cost to you. Hell, they even are pitching a $2 Million dollar liability insurance policy thrown in for any damage caused by the system they install.

Umm, thanks but I'd rather save $15K today and pay for my own new $3000 inverter sometime in the future.

[Spektre]

At American Solar Direct... the lease payment COMPOUNDS at 3%.

Example:

$100 goes to $103....

then...

$103 goes to $106.10

Then $109.30.

After 30 years, compounding , rather than adding the 3% really adds up.

Its all a total scam...... buying is the right choice.

Exactly - the PURCHASE at Solar City COMPOUNDS at 2.9%! How is that me buying the system??? It's not an interest rate on the loan, it's how they've managed to configure the loan payback. You pay the loan back by buying your power at a rate that compounds at 2.9% annually. What a scam!

[Alisobob]

I hadn't really paid much attention to the escalator ...... By year 20 your monthly payment nearly doubles.

This is the plan..... and no one seems to care.. at least on my street

[Ian S]

At American Solar Direct... the lease payment COMPOUNDS at 3%.

Example:

$100 goes to $103....

then...

$103 goes to $106.10

Then $109.30.

After 30 years, compounding , rather than adding the 3% really adds up.

Its all a total scam...... buying is the right choice.

OK, I just went back to my quotes from summer 2011. I hadn't really paid much attention to the escalator because I was interested in the prepaid lease. But at that time SolarCity had a 3.5% escalator and if you wade through the details, it too was compounded. By year 20 your monthly payment nearly doubles. You could buy your way out of the escalator but it was expensive to do so. Here's a capture from the SolarCity proposal. And folks wonder why I went with a prepaid lease - not this one but an even better priced one from SunPower!

ScreenHunter_04 May. 05 13.45.jpg

[Alisobob]

At American Solar Direct... the lease payment COMPOUNDS at 3%.

Example:

$100 goes to $103....

then...

$103 goes to $106.10

Then $109.30.

After 30 years, compounding , rather than adding the 3% really adds up.

Its all a total scam...... buying is the right choice.

[Ian S]

After I digested this, I started searching for people posting about what a load of BS their pitch is, but found nothing.

Most folks here have been highly critical for years especially with respect to the escalator and how their systems sold for purchase are way overpriced - the thinking being that it makes their lease look better which is their bread and butter. I don't remember a single discussion of SC here withoutthe suggestion being made that anyone considering them get other quotes. Plus the escalator is universally reviled here even by those like me who think a lease can in some circumstances make sense. Note that SC is not the only one who resorts to an escalator.

[Stopsignhank1]

Someone at my work is going through solarcity and it getting a smaller system than mine and paying about $10K more than me. But he is stoked because he can pay for it over 30 years!!!

[solarix]

In my area, we're are getting slaughtered in sales by SC. Despite their high prices and cheap quality, people seem to really go for the big company line. Being endorsed and promoted by the local big-box store helps a lot I'm sure. The leasing companies are all playing the same game though. Jack the retail price up just as far as the IRS allows to get the maximum tax credit, then pass that along to the customer in lower monthly payments to get below what they are currently paying the utility. The "fixed" monthly payment just means the payments are determined and set in advance - not that they are the same throughout the term. If you want all payments the same, that means the initial payments are higher and blows the savings advantage.
Bottom line is if you can afford to buy (or get a loan for) your solar system and use the tax credits yourself, you will be way better off than a lease. The maintenance and repair costs on solar are minimal - why shell out for sure to the leasing company for that? Leases are for someone who really wants to "go solar" but can't afford it and doesn't have any tax liability either.

[J.P.M.]

I, like the OP, got a quote from SC. The PDF from the very pleasant salesman that came to my house had all the details in it.

Their 'MyPower' finance arrangement (which they claim is not a PPA), not their lease, does contain an annual payment increase of 2.9% and their comparison is for an estimated 3.9% annual rate increase from the utility. They wanted $61K before incentives for a 13.5kW (80%) system. So, not only are they way overpriced on their install, they're also increasing your cost every year for 30 years! Oh, but you'll own the system once it's mostly worthless...

The 'savings' graph they provided was my first clue. I thought - "That's odd - why is my fixed payment cost with solar increasing annually?"

After I digested this, I started searching for people posting about what a load of BS their pitch is, but found nothing. Needless to say, I won't be going with Solar City.

Many folks agree with you. Some do not. I've seen a lot of SolarCity leases and have reviewed a lot of SolarCity drawings,information and work. I'm impressed with none of it, but opinions vary.

[russ]

After I digested this, I started searching for people posting about what a load of BS their pitch is, but found nothing. Needless to say, I won't be going with Solar City.

Glad you saw through the SC BS - there are good companies leasing and selling out there - good luck!