Water Tank vs Battery Bank ?

[MarineLiner]

Conversation about idea

Me:

I checked your website and found the water hammer mentioned at Key
Components page.

Herewith, I want to ask your help to try implementing my idea of Water
Hammer used as an additional pressure in rotating the turbine.
Water hammer effect as created in the hydro ram pump can be used to
increase power pressure to the turbine.

Hope you could catch what I try to accomplish in turbine design.

My friend:

water hammer is a momentary event and only happens when water valve is closed and the water to the turbine is stopped.
So you would lose all turbine power during the water hammer event.
I do not see the logic or merit to this, sorry.

Me:[QUOTE]I meant of use it as in Hydro Ram Pump, the shut valve can open and
close all the time.
The hammer effect created along the penstock can be maxim

[MarineLiner]

..... RAM PUMP, been around for hundreds of years, simple, and works.
..., but they can't generate enough lift, to store much useable water for hydro, even pumping for free.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ram_pump

[Mike90250]

What is described is a RAM PUMP, been around for hundreds of years, simple, and works. Many companys make them, in varied styles, but they can't generate enough lift, to store much useable water for hydro, even pumping for free.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ram_pump

[MarineLiner]

PICTURE:

http://www.gravi-chek.com/assets/images/Gravi2a.gif

Installation
Shown here is a diagram of a typical Gravi-Chek installation.* The labels on the diagram are linked to information about each item.

River source / Supply / Water level

In order to activate the Gravi-Chek pump you will need to locate a clean water source with an applicable fall.*
If the source is not clean, your pump may malfunction.* You may require a filter or sedimentation tank at the connection from your water supply to your drive pipe.*
If you use a tank as the supply and the water needs filtering, install the filter on the supply side of the tank instead of at the start of the drive pipe; this allows water to enter the drive pipe unrestricted (any restriction at the drive pipe will reduce the water flow to the pump, lowering pump efficiency).* The water level in the supply tank should be at least twelve inches higher than the drive pipe to avoid air entering the drive pipe.
If air enters the drive pipe, pump performance will decrease and the pump may stop working.

Fall requirement / Drive pipe:

The fall to drive pipe relationship is 1 - 5 ; that is, for every foot of fall, five feet of drive pipe is required.* For example, a four foot fall requires a twenty foot long drive pipe.* An increase in the pump

[MarineLiner]

Motorless Water Pump--Gravi-Chek

http://www.gravi-chek.com/html/how_it_works.html

I mean air pressure and bouncing similar like this,
but to power a turbine, not just for lifting water.

[MarineLiner]

Thank you very much.
It's very informative.
Then, some one told me gravi-chek.com :
Water flows through the drive pipe into the pump and out through the waste gate. The buoyant ball will be pulled down by the flow of water and block the waste gate.

Here the ball has blocked the waste gate.* The incoming water forces the spring loaded check valve open, allowing water to fill the surge tank, compressing the air in the tank.

When the pressure in the surge tank equals the pressure in the drive pipe, the water from the drive pipe can no longer flow into the pump, a

[crxvfr]

Here's one for you MarineLiner.
Solar Hydro Steam (Distiller).

[MarineLiner]

It's impossible to use a pressure tank (w/wout bladder) to store water for hydro power.
... for energy storage, batteries are way better.

Yes, I just want to "dig" upto what "level" of efficiency we can make use the water storage.
In Wiki, Pressure Vessel, I read:
.5psi per foot of water head.
Let's use 1m head then get 1.5 psi.
Shut the valve, then get "additional" pressure from gravity (less than 1.5 psi).
Open the valve for a while then close again, get "additional" .....

[Mike90250]

It's impossible to use a pressure tank (w/wout bladder) to store water for hydro power. Pressure tanks are used for water delivery, to reduce pump run times, for energy storage, batteries are way better.

[MarineLiner]

The T at the out flow line is for connecting the air tank upward, so the water can't enter it.
When we open and close the valve repeatedly, the water flow will get additional pressure from the air tank (like as bouncing).
But I don't know upto what number the additional pressure can reach.

[russ]

Hydro storage - they could do it on the Columbia River in OR/WA possibly - recycling water - commercially there locations but it isn't cheap.

MarineLiner - What are you trying to accomplish with this tee and air tank?

[MarineLiner]

Thanks for sharing.
Have you used an air tank, with a "T" at the outlet line, to increase pressure ?
I want to put a valve controller, after the "T", so:
when the valve closed then the air pressure increased.
Then the valve opened with an additional pressure.
Then the valve closed again,
then opened again, and so on, and so on.

[Mike90250]

If you have the flow rate, and elevation difference, you CAN use micro-hydro for generation, but considering pumping back and spinning a turbine, you need a large pond, tanks won't hold enough water to be useful. I've got 9,000 at 160' hight in tanks, and to get appreciable power via my 2" fire hydrant, I'd have to drain them in a couple hours, and then take days to refill them.
Water & Power Trenches (+900')

http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=2046878&id=1196643274&l=5f0faaf572

[MarineLiner]

Thanks all.
To me, I can't re-design battery as I don't have electro-chemical knowledge.
So, I prefer to try with re-design small turbine which could be easier.

[Sunking]

[QUOTE=russ;10144
On large hydroelectric projects there is some possibility. Residential - zero![/QUOTE]More than a possibility, at least here in the USA. Many of hydro electric dams in the USE have pump back lake for this very purpose and goes back all the way to the great depression of the 20's. However, all areas in the USA have been used up as there is no more water or land to use.