Solar Panel Install Inquiry - SoCal

[ButchDeal]

SolarEdge is going to cost lot less since that's a downgrade. Optimizers requires string inverters mounted to garage or wall. If you skip optimizers, you will save a lot more by going with just string inverter.

Solaredge should cost a little less but that does not make it a down grade. SolarEdge isn't standard optimizer, with solarEdge you are putting 2/3 of the string inverter on each. Module and the most critical part ( DC to AC ) is central. SolarEdge optimizers will not work with a regular string inverter. In this configuration OP would be limiting each module to 250w with enphase but not limiting with solarEdge.

[ericf1]

SolarEdge is going to cost lot less since that's a downgrade.

In this case, the Solaredge sytem will outperform the enphase system at a lower cost. Not sure I would consider that a downgrade. As far as equipment quality, I have not seen evidence that either company's current product is superior. I notice many of your posts seem to be derogatory toward solaredge. Pretty much sounds like the sales people that tried to sell me sunpower and enphase.

[SleepingDragon]

Solaredge should cost a little less but that does not make it a down grade. SolarEdge isn't standard optimizer, with solarEdge you are putting 2/3 of the string inverter on each. Module and the most critical part ( DC to AC ) is central. SolarEdge optimizers will not work with a regular string inverter. In this configuration OP would be limiting each module to 250w with enphase but not limiting with solarEdge.

I thought SolarEdge optimizers work with any string inverters, sort of like what Tigo was capable of? Tigo is being integrated into Trina Solar panels and being pushed out via Vivint Solar. From my research, there are articles and such that points to the panels rated output is only during optimal weather condition and with the appropriate sunlight hitting directly at it. Typically, that's about 1-3% of the year you'll get that kind of weather? People tend to oversize their panels to try and retain their maximum output since there are many factors that will not give you the solar panels rated number. Also, the solar panels will degrade every year. So in reality, not sure if you'll benefit greatly with SolarEdge.

[SleepingDragon]

In this case, the Solaredge sytem will outperform the enphase system at a lower cost. Not sure I would consider that a downgrade. As far as equipment quality, I have not seen evidence that either company's current product is superior. I notice many of your posts seem to be derogatory toward solaredge. Pretty much sounds like the sales people that tried to sell me sunpower and enphase.

I'm not convinced on SolarEdge's quality since they are a 9 year old company that is only making it's strong push recently because the "Walmart" of solar installers (SolarCity) is their main customer assisting them on that push. They account for 25-35% of their business. SolarCity mainly uses cheap stuff since they are trying to mass install and costs is a very important factor for them. Almost everyone knows there's typically not much to maintain when it comes to solar. Clean your panels is top on the maintenance list? As for SunPower and Enphase... I'm a big fan of SunPower and First Solar panels. SunPower is quality stuff, even though they're made in the Phillipines. However, I like SolarWorld panels for their "Made in USA" tag... Enphase, I would avoid the M190's since those had a bad rep and may have hampered some of their potential future sales. But their M215 and M250 are pretty much top notch microinverters and have a huge install base in Hawaii for quite some time so it's been around for a while. Both, Enphase and SolarEdge are 9 year old companies. Both have their pros and cons. If it's up to me, I wish I could have gone with SunPower and Enphase, but I don't remember seeing that combo around when I was doing my shopping. SunPower was mainly using SolarBridge microinverters and may end up exclusively selling that combo as a complete set.

[ButchDeal]

I thought SolarEdge optimizers work with any string inverters, sort of like what Tigo was capable of? Tigo is being integrated into Trina Solar panels and being pushed out via Vivint Solar. From my research, there are articles and such that points to the panels rated output is only during optimal weather condition and with the appropriate sunlight hitting directly at it. Typically, that's about 1-3% of the year you'll get that kind of weather? People tend to oversize their panels to try and retain their maximum output since there are many factors that will not give you the solar panels rated number. Also, the solar panels will degrade every year. So in reality, not sure if you'll benefit greatly with SolarEdge.

SolarEdge optimizers do not work with any inverter they are not the same as tigo and you will have lost quite a bit of power by the time the 305w modules degrade down to 250w and paid more for the privelidge of losing all that power. Yes people do oversize modules slightly as you mentioned 1kw Isi a lot of oversizing though. Your logic evades common since but your money not mine.

[SleepingDragon]

SolarEdge optimizers do not work with any inverter they are not the same as tigo and you will have lost quite a bit of power by the time the 305w modules degrade down to 250w and paid more for the privelidge of losing all that power. Yes people do oversize modules slightly as you mentioned 1kw Isi a lot of oversizing though. Your logic evades common since but your money not mine.

You do know that the rated 305kw will rarely ever produce at full rated capacity as the rating is based on laboratory conditions right? In theory it sounds good. You can put a 4.9kw or higher inverter from SMA, SolarEdge, Fronius or whatever company you choose and the likely scenario is that your panels are going to end up producing roughly about 3.9kw to about 4.2kw on good sunny days during its peak. This is prior to ever seeing any degradation, dirt, or shade.

[ButchDeal]

You do know that the rated 305kw will rarely ever produce at full rated capacity as the rating is based on laboratory conditions right? In theory it sounds good. You can put a 4.9kw or higher inverter from SMA, SolarEdge, Fronius or whatever company you choose and the likely scenario is that your panels are going to end up producing roughly about 3.9kw to about 4.2kw on good sunny days during its peak. This is prior to ever seeing any degradation, dirt, or shade.

Your do know of course that a 305w module WILL produce over 250w and pretty significantly over it. Look around at pvoutput and you can see significant clipping on south facing arrays with 305w modules and M250 inverters. South facing systems seem to have 5+ Hours of clipping, conservatively 1kwh a day.
it makes no since at all to pay more for one option that will perform more poorly than the other, particularly with everything else equal to better with the cheaper option.

[SleepingDragon]

Your do know of course that a 305w module WILL produce over 250w and pretty significantly over it. Look around at pvoutput and you can see significant clipping on south facing arrays with 305w modules and M250 inverters. South facing systems seem to have 5+ Hours of clipping, conservatively 1kwh a day.
it makes no since at all to pay more for one option that will perform more poorly than the other, particularly with everything else equal to better with the cheaper option.

You keep referencing lab tests and results instead of real live output and capabilities. Just use SolarEdge's website and Enphase's website and look at their public system that is available. I'll pick out similar if not identical panels and both of these are located in Carlsbad, CA. Here's what I see:

19 LG300 panels, M250 (5.7kw system)
32.2kw as of now
*each panel produced: 1.694
peaked at 5kw for less than 1 hour

16 LG300 panels, SE6000 (4.8kw system)
25.41kw as of now
*each panel produced: 1.588
peaked at 4.2kw for less than 1 hour

These live and current results are what it is right now from 2 very similar systems. Their numbers are very close and hopefully, the Enphase is a M250 not a M215. So... as for the clipping, it will happen and it's very minimal impact as you will rarely see that kind of temperature settings where your panels stays cool and directly facing the sun. As the sun shines onto these panels, unless you plan to spend money to keep them cool for the next 5 hours, the clipping you mention makes little to limited impact. The 5-6 hours is a number that would be of 1 year total, not on a daily basis. And of course the marketing BS and all their paid researches will show you numbers and stories that isn't part of reality. Hmmm... shouldn't those SolarEdge produced more power per panel since there should be no clipping??? At the end of the day, I'm sure both system are similar and it's a matter of preference since each has their own pros and cons.

[thejq]

You keep referencing lab tests and results instead of real live output and capabilities. Just use SolarEdge's website and Enphase's website and look at their public system that is available. I'll pick out similar if not identical panels and both of these are located in Carlsbad, CA. Here's what I see:

19 LG300 panels, M250 (5.7kw system)
32.2kw as of now
*each panel produced: 1.694
peaked at 5kw for less than 1 hour

16 LG300 panels, SE6000 (4.8kw system)
25.41kw as of now
*each panel produced: 1.588
peaked at 4.2kw for less than 1 hour

These live and current results are what it is right now from 2 very similar systems. Their numbers are very close and hopefully, the Enphase is a M250 not a M215. So... as for the clipping, it will happen and it's very minimal impact as you will rarely see that kind of temperature settings where your panels stays cool and directly facing the sun. As the sun shines onto these panels, unless you plan to spend money to keep them cool for the next 5 hours, the clipping you mention makes little to limited impact. The 5-6 hours is a number that would be of 1 year total, not on a daily basis. And of course the marketing BS and all their paid researches will show you numbers and stories that isn't part of reality. Hmmm... shouldn't those SolarEdge produced more power per panel since there should be no clipping??? At the end of the day, I'm sure both system are similar and it's a matter of preference since each has their own pros and cons.

The topic of clipping has been debated many times in the past. Many times, it comes down to installation specific. For example, according to PVWatt, my system peaks in June to July time frame. Today it had about 3.5 hours of output wattage above 4KW which is the max if I had installed M250, even though the total extra energy in KWh is not that significant yet. One thing is for sure, if you're comparing two identically (or similarly) oriented system of Enphase and SolarEdge, if clipping does occur with Enphase, the SolarEdge system will definitely out perform in efficiency.

BTW, the 4.8 KW system you quoted sounded like mine which has a SW orientation. So power production starts and ends late. But if you check at the end of the day, my system should be pretty high up in the chart in terms of efficiency. And it will only get better as the sun moves towards summer solstice.

[ButchDeal]

You keep referencing lab tests and results instead of real live output and capabilities. Just use SolarEdge's website and Enphase's website and look at their public system that is available. I'll pick out similar if not identical panels and both of these are located in Carlsbad, CA. Here's what I see:

19 LG300 panels, M250 (5.7kw system)
32.2kw as of now
*each panel produced: 1.694
peaked at 5kw for less than 1 hour

16 LG300 panels, SE6000 (4.8kw system)
25.41kw as of now
*each panel produced: 1.588
peaked at 4.2kw for less than 1 hour

These live and current results are what it is right now from 2 very similar systems. Their numbers are very close and hopefully, the Enphase is a M250 not a M215. So... as for the clipping, it will happen and it's very minimal impact as you will rarely see that kind of temperature settings where your panels stays cool and directly facing the sun. As the sun shines onto these panels, unless you plan to spend money to keep them cool for the next 5 hours, the clipping you mention makes little to limited impact. The 5-6 hours is a number that would be of 1 year total, not on a daily basis. And of course the marketing BS and all their paid researches will show you numbers and stories that isn't part of reality. Hmmm... shouldn't those SolarEdge produced more power per panel since there should be no clipping??? At the end of the day, I'm sure both system are similar and it's a matter of preference since each has their own pros and cons.

I am not quoting any lab tests and never did. I have mentioned multiple times to look at pvoutput which is live systems.
HEre is a great example of a 2.4kw system with 8x LG300W modules with M250 enphase :

http://pvoutput.org/intraday.jsp?id=35488&sid=32483&dt=20150329&gs=0&m=0

The SolarEdge one you give as an example seems to have a westerly azimuth:

http://pvoutput.org/intraday.jsp?id=34940&sid=31988&dt=20150327

pairing an M250 with a 280W module would have limited clipping as you mention but with a 305w module is where you might be over spending on the module compared to inverter.

[SleepingDragon]

The topic of clipping has been debated many times in the past. Many times, it comes down to installation specific. For example, according to PVWatt, my system peaks in June to July time frame. Today it had about 3.5 hours of output wattage above 4KW which is the max if I had installed M250, even though the total extra energy in KWh is not that significant yet. One thing is for sure, if you're comparing two identically (or similarly) oriented system of Enphase and SolarEdge, if clipping does occur with Enphase, the SolarEdge system will definitely out perform in efficiency.

BTW, the 4.8 KW system you quoted sounded like mine which has a SW orientation. So power production starts and ends late. But if you check at the end of the day, my system should be pretty high up in the chart in terms of efficiency. And it will only get better as the sun moves towards summer solstice.

LOL. I think it was yours. Yes, it's quite efficient and compares favorably with the Enphase one. From what the chart is showing for daily, it shows 12:45pm at above 4kw and ends at 3pm. A little over 2 hours? There's almost no possible way to have identical comparisons unless someone decides to fork over the money and do it... Of course, this will need to be done outside of a lab environment. Unfortunately, for me the installation on my roof is quite expensive. Flat roof along with limited space...

[SleepingDragon]

I am not quoting any lab tests and never did. I have mentioned multiple times to look at pvoutput which is live systems.
HEre is a great example of a 2.4kw system with 8x LG300W modules with M250 enphase :

http://pvoutput.org/intraday.jsp?id=35488&sid=32483&dt=20150329&gs=0&m=0

The SolarEdge one you give as an example seems to have a westerly azimuth:

http://pvoutput.org/intraday.jsp?id=34940&sid=31988&dt=20150327

pairing an M250 with a 280W module would have limited clipping as you mention but with a 305w module is where you might be over spending on the module compared to inverter.

Different cities and different orientations as well... Your statement on 305w is correct since even Enphase says that their M250 goes up to 300w. Either way, no system has been able to consistently produce anywhere near their rated panel numbers. I think I saw a few SW275/280 outperforming the LG300...

[electriclove]

dhuong & buellwinkle,

Could you please PM me your contacts? I'm in the Glendale area. Much appreciated!

[rfarkiya]

San diego solar

Hey guys... PM me contact info as well... i am looking for 4-5kw system for my house in San diego... appreciate your help.

[J.P.M.]

Hey guys... PM me contact info as well... i am looking for 4-5kw system for my house in San diego... appreciate your help.

You a peddler phishing for leads ? If not, why not post a question or two and a description of things like your usage and what you want to accomplish so we can all get a look and share ?