Anyone using a Smappee?

[russ]

I know a little about electricity, but not much. Which part is misleading? I would imagine that those who purchase it will anticipate that the device can inform them how much power each appliance/circuit is using. Won't it do that?

You have 20 users in the house and one sensor - how does it do what it claims.

There are established units that actually do what they claim.

[SunEagle]

I know a little about electricity, but not much. Which part is misleading? I would imagine that those who purchase it will anticipate that the device can inform them how much power each appliance/circuit is using. Won't it do that?

From what I can tell the original kit has 4 clip on CT's. Probably 2 for the house usage and 2 for the Solar generation. Those should provide a rough idea of what your "total" house electric load is and how much is being off set from the solar production. It will not tell you how much any single appliance is using.

Next one of those Control plugs seems to have the ability to turn "one" of your appliances (probably a low wattage item) on and off. If you want to control more items it will cost you extra $xx for each. That could add up to $100's more.

Now the biggest misleading part is that without have a CT on each and every appliance or circuit breaker there would be no accurate way to determine what each is using in kw. If you added CT's and the conversion device to calculate the amount of watts each item is using will start to get into the $1000 range.

So if someone told you that for $350 and downloading an app on your phone will give you exactly what each electrical appliance (TV, Fan, lights, AC, Oven, Cloths washer, Dryer, etc.) is using in watts on a daily basis, I would say you are being BS'd into believing the system won't cost a lot but will give you very accurate electrical usage data. I call that misleading.

[lkstaack]

Now the biggest misleading part is that without have a CT on each and every appliance or circuit breaker there would be no accurate way to determine what each is using in kw. If you added CT's and the conversion device to calculate the amount of watts each item is using will start to get into the $1000 range.

That's not my understanding on how it works. My understanding is that you have only one sensor attached to the breaker box and then you have to "teach" it every appliance circuit. You turn everything off, and then turn every appliance/circuit on and off one at a time while labeling it. It somehow is able to ID each appliance/circuit through a unique characteristic of each appliance.

[pamalot]

From what I can tell the original kit has 4 clip on CT's. Probably 2 for the house usage and 2 for the Solar generation. Those should provide a rough idea of what your "total" house electric load is and how much is being off set from the solar production. It will not tell you how much any single appliance is using.

Next one of those Control plugs seems to have the ability to turn "one" of your appliances (probably a low wattage item) on and off. If you want to control more items it will cost you extra $xx for each. That could add up to $100's more.

Now the biggest misleading part is that without have a CT on each and every appliance or circuit breaker there would be no accurate way to determine what each is using in kw. If you added CT's and the conversion device to calculate the amount of watts each item is using will start to get into the $1000 range.

So if someone told you that for $350 and downloading an app on your phone will give you exactly what each electrical appliance (TV, Fan, lights, AC, Oven, Cloths washer, Dryer, etc.) is using in watts on a daily basis, I would say you are being BS'd into believing the system won't cost a lot but will give you very accurate electrical usage data. I call that misleading.

SunEagle - I think you've got it wrong. You don't need to install loads of CTs on each appliance, that's what I like about this. Don't get me wrong I'm too long in the tooth not to be suspicious too. I don't think I would have taken the risk if there wasn't the 30day money back deal. Also, doing some Google time on it last night seemed to put my mind at ease that they are legit. Also, they aren't the only ones out there doing this I found a few others to. Bidgely was one I remember seeing, I can't remember the others. I'll take a look at my notes I took when I get home. Looks like this appliance detection thing from one sensor is an emerging market.

[pamalot]

I just got the receipt for this and it says they're sending me 200Amp CTs. How can I check that these are big enough for my home?

[sensij]

Check the size of your main circuit breaker. Residential service >200 A is not very common, and even when service is bigger, actually using that all at once is hard to do.

[ButchDeal]

SunEagle - I think you've got it wrong. You don't need to install loads of CTs on each appliance, that's what I like about this. Don't get me wrong I'm too long in the tooth not to be suspicious too. I don't think I would have taken the risk if there wasn't the 30day money back deal. Also, doing some Google time on it last night seemed to put my mind at ease that they are legit. Also, they aren't the only ones out there doing this I found a few others to. Bidgely was one I remember seeing, I can't remember the others. I'll take a look at my notes I took when I get home. Looks like this appliance detection thing from one sensor is an emerging market.

It will likely be able to learn some appliances that do NOT have variable speed fans and such like an electric water heater would work but a modern energy star heat pump, not so much. For just a few $ more you could get a TED Pro with two MTUs and monitor full solar and learn appliances the same way. With the TED though you can add more MTUs or the 8 circuit monitoring spider attachment. I have been working with the support and have a version of their code for the TED Pro that works with PVoutput as well. Also two things I like about the new TED Pro is it has much better communication, and can upload to up to 5 sites so you can have it send to Bidgely AND PVoutput if you like.

http://www.theenergydetective.com/prohomestore.html

Here is my Ted Pro site (yes I have a TED 500 and a TED pro with CT right next to each other )

http://pvoutput.org/intraday.jsp?id=31117&sid=29881

[russ]

Or look at plugwise - https://www.plugwise.com/ they are a real product -

the claim this product makes about telling what is on and what is not is bull - no matter who or how many are trying it. Checking on google is not impressive - the fools rating generally have no idea.

[SunEagle]

SunEagle - I think you've got it wrong. You don't need to install loads of CTs on each appliance, that's what I like about this. Don't get me wrong I'm too long in the tooth not to be suspicious too. I don't think I would have taken the risk if there wasn't the 30day money back deal. Also, doing some Google time on it last night seemed to put my mind at ease that they are legit. Also, they aren't the only ones out there doing this I found a few others to. Bidgely was one I remember seeing, I can't remember the others. I'll take a look at my notes I took when I get home. Looks like this appliance detection thing from one sensor is an emerging market.

A really smart and accurate sensor might be an emerging market but from my hands on experience of performing Power Quality Field measurements testing one item at a time for a short or even a 24hour duration will get you an estimated usage profile but not one that is any close to accurate for usage throughout the year.

The only way to accurately collect power usage data is to perform long term (days , weeks, months) of data collection for each device. Especially the big ticket items like your washer, dryer, HVAC, electric stove and even a pool pump.

Any directions being given to a purchaser of this item from this company stating it is simple and accurate way to measure your power usage is at the least misleading and at the most will cost you a lot more then you want to spend.

[sensij]

I would not rule out the possibility that a sensor with sufficient bandwidth could fingerprint the large energy consumers by their startup signature. Decoupling the load of several devices running at once might be difficult, even if the software can tell from the fingerprints which devices are on at the same time. Whether this device represents a step forward or not is difficult to say, but I hope the OP will update us when it has been installed and "trained".

[pamalot]

Check the size of your main circuit breaker. Residential service >200 A is not very common, and even when service is bigger, actually using that all at once is hard to do.

Thanks sensij. Mine says 200A on it to looks like 200A CTs will be right for me.

[prhamilton]

I use a site called bidgely that does the dis-aggregation of the power data. It works reasonably well. I use a rainforest automation meter which uses a wireless signal built-in to smart meters to gather the interval level information and push that up to the bidgely website.

You have the option to 'train' the site on various appliance signatures by turning on and off appliances. Or it will try and determine the appliance by the signature. It found my pool pump no problem. I trained it for my washer/dryer. Once it sees the load signature it even gets things right when you have the dishwasher and laundry going at the same time. And by 'right' I would say withing 10% of kill-a-watt, extreme precision isn't the point, relative sizes and trendlines are. It has a bucket for 'other' which are loads it isn't able to identify, in my case its about 30% of my usage. It also has a bucket for 'always on' to help you try and minimize your vampire draw.

Its a fun toy and it does make me more conscience of my energy usage and it gives me some data to do something about it. I think dis-aggregation is going to become more mainstream with power companies providing it directly from their websites (no extra hardware required).

edit: if you have a TED, I think it can push interval info up to the bidgely site.

[pamalot]

I use a site called bidgely that does the dis-aggregation of the power data. It works reasonably well. I use a rainforest automation meter which uses a wireless signal built-in to smart meters to gather the interval level information and push that up to the bidgely website.

You have the option to 'train' the site on various appliance signatures by turning on and off appliances. Or it will try and determine the appliance by the signature. It found my pool pump no problem. I trained it for my washer/dryer. Once it sees the load signature it even gets things right when you have the dishwasher and laundry going at the same time. And by 'right' I would say withing 10% of kill-a-watt, extreme precision isn't the point, relative sizes and trendlines are. It has a bucket for 'other' which are loads it isn't able to identify, in my case its about 30% of my usage. It also has a bucket for 'always on' to help you try and minimize your vampire draw.

Its a fun toy and it does make me more conscience of my energy usage and it gives me some data to do something about it. I think dis-aggregation is going to become more mainstream with power companies providing it directly from their websites (no extra hardware required).

edit: if you have a TED, I think it can push interval info up to the bidgely site.

Good to know the technology works. Thanks.

I came across Bidgley last night but from their website it seemed they just dealt with Utilities. I couldn't remember seeing a shop where I could look to see what was available to buy. I also wasn't keen buying a sensor/meter/monitor from one company, software from another vendor and then I still wouldn't have the home control angle that Smappee had, so I passed. A least if the Smappee thing doesn't work I only have one company to blame and deal with on returns. Although I was glad to find another company that did the same kinda thing.

[pamalot]

Update - Smappee arrived a day or so after I ordered it on Amazon. It's only been installed for about 48 hours so far but here's my initial thoughts.

BAD - Although the packaging and product looked professional enough, there was no instructions in the box. Nothing!! I know this is the internet age but still why do we always have to download instruction manuals from a website. A little user guide or quick install guide in the box wouldn't have hurt.

GOOD - The install was simple enough. I had a friend (electrician) install it just to be on the safe side, but it only took him (max) 30 minutes from start to finish. I now realize I could have installed it myself, but I guess it's better to be safe than 'dead' with electrics. Downloading the App and getting the Smappee to connect to my wifi was also childs play.

So far it's recognized 5 appliances (refrigerator, oven, microwave, coffee machine and bagel toaster), but it seems to be detecting more each day. I think it updates it's appliance list each night, because when I wake up there a few more it's found.

I installed the Comfort Plug that came with it on the power strip that runs my TV, cable, stereo etc. I ran into a problem with this, which was my own fault for being a doofus and not reading the instructions properly. Their support lady set me right, response time was good. I set it to switch everything off at night and through the day on a schedule. I could see from the realtime data this reduced my Always On (as they call it) down by about 30 watts. It surprised me how much power my home consumes at night and when I'm at work.

and that's where I'm up to so far. Although it's getting a little addictive looking at my realtime solar generation and home consumption while I'm at work. It's pretty cool though, I like it!

I'll update you more at the weekend.

[lkstaack]

I recall reading a blog review of the unit. The reviewer summarized that the hardware was outstanding but the software was rudimentary. As I recall, he complained that it wouldn't keep more than a week or two worth of data and it wouldn't allow you to drill down to the data from the graphs.