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Hello all, nice to be here, lots of good Info. So I'm in a tight spot, my utility company just started charging a connection fee for solar customers of 50 to 150 dollars a month depending on system size. The only way around this is if I don't back feed any power into the grid. Eventually I would like to produce enough and store enough power to take care of my own needs. If I am over producing during the day what's to stop the power from being fed back into the grid? I'm basically trying to figure out a system that can take care of a 2800sqft 2 story house in Phoenix AZ with a pool (no variable speed pump yet) and ac units built in 1986, lol. Not sure power consumption, we just moved in and old owners wouldn't tell us utility bill. Anyone know a cost effective way of doing this? Maybe even suggest a solar kit I could buy? Thanks for reading this, Jason.
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Jason, who is your utility company? I'm not aware of either APS or SRP charging any sort of fees based on system size that would equate to $50 - $100 per month.
SRP just passed new rates for solar customers but those are based on Demand, not size size. APS does have a system size rate in place I believe, but it's $0.70/kW AC...something like a 10kW system would cost $7.00 per month. -
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Can you say pay up your fair share?MSEE, PEComment
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I've actually studied it a bit so I'm somewhat familiar with it (enough though I have APS
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The new SRP rates for solar are based on Demand kW, not your system size. Whoever this AZSolarWave is doesn't sound too knowledgable about it, you think they would be if they are selling and installing solar.
Basically during the on-peak hours of 1pm-8pm from May 1 - Oct 31 and 5am - 9pm, 5pm - 9pm Nov 1 - April 30, SRP is going to monitor your peak Demand every month. The Demand is any 30 minute period where you use the most electricity during that whole month. Your solar is going to counterbalance your demand depending on the size of your system.
The amount you get charged is a bit confusing to figure out because there seem to be a million smaller charges, but the biggest is this demand charge which is approx $8 per the first 3kw, $14 per the next 7kW and $27 per each additional.
Putting that into an example...lets say in March between the hours of 7:00pm - 7:30pm, you have the electric dryer, electric washer, over and dishwasher all running and you record a Demand usage of 4kWh in that 30 minute timespan. Your charge would be 3x$8 = $24 + 1x$14 = $14 total $38...plus whatever other fees and usage you have from the grid.
Now say the same thing happened but it happened between 1pm - 1:30pm when your solar is producing 6kWh...if you have the same 4kWh Demand, you would get no fee...the solar would completely counter balance the Demand.
So it's really going to come down to being careful of using high usage appliances between the time that your solar isn't producing and while still within the Time of Use window. And if possible, use everything you need during the day...which is kind of counter intuitive to what we're used to. Run the pool pump during the day for example.
On the flip side, they seem to have lowered the price for power you do get from the grid pretty substantially. Summer on-peak is 4.86¢/kWh, off-peak is 3.71¢...winter is 4.3¢ on peak and 3.9¢ off peak. People without solar are paying summer on-peak 19.57¢/kWh, off-peak is 7.8¢...winter is 10.2¢ on peak and 7.11¢ off peak.
Another key part that I just now learned by reading up on the rates again is that apparently they are taking away net metering? That's some BS!
According to Part G of the document...
G. The kWh delivered to SRP shall be subtracted from the kWh delivered from SRP for each billing cycle. If the kWh calculation is net positive for the billing cycle, SRP will bill the net kWh to the customer under this price plan. If the kWh calculation is net negative for the billing cycle, SRP will credit customer for the net kWh at the retail per-kWh price under this price plan. For the purposes of this calculation, excess generation will be tracked by time-of-use period.
Excess generation used to be credited to the account to be used at a later time. But I do see they are giving retail prices, not wholesale, so it may not be so bad.
Here is the document if you want to read up, info you need starts on page 28: https://www.srpnet.com/prices/busine...kPUBLISHED.pdfComment
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absolutely not, why should people that generate their own power be charged more than people that do not? I understand the need to upgrade the utility infastructure but why hold that against individuals going green? Based on the new power plan its cheaper for me to not get solar.Comment
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Im just looking for a way to reduce my carbon footprint that wont break my wallet. I can suffer the initial monetary investment to buy a system on ebay lets say, I just want to know how to hook it up correctly so it will not export power to the grid and be charged thus fees. This may require battery storage and so on, Im just looking for a cost effective way to go green.Comment
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I don't know of any battery free grid tie, that will not back feed the grid. They have no way of knowing if you are exporting, or blending drinks.
Some off-grid, hybrid inverters (like my XW-6048) CAN do this, but you need to have it programmed just right, and have the hassle of batteries. But it won't sell to the grid.
But first, you do the efficiency stuff, go the highest efficiency, add insulation and then when you have thinned your electric usage, you can get away with a smaller PV systemPowerfab top of pole PV mount (2) | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
|| Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
|| VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A
solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-ListerComment
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Solaredge inverters can do this. Do a google search on solaredge zero feed-in.... http://www.solaredge.com/files/pdfs/...tion_flyer.pdf6k LG 300, 16S, 2E, 2W, Solaredge P400s and SE5000Comment
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No, it's still not cheaper to not go solar...well, depends how you're figuring it out. If you're including the solar equipment then possibly...but pure electric bill vs electric bill the solar plan would be cheaper...much cheaper it should be.
On thing though that Ian pointed out in another thread was a great point...if SRP believes that their new solar plan makes it fair for solar people to contribute their share to the grid by charging based on their demand needs...why don't they charge ALL customers based on the same criteria? Why have two different plans? Why are they not fully separating generation vs everything else? At least then it would seem fair, no?Comment
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Wow, this I did not know about! That is very very cool!
I do believe that most POCO's will say that you cannot connect to their grid without permission however...though would this be considered connecting to their grid? The inverter connects via a breaker in MY service panel...can they tell me what I can and cannot connect in my service panel? And if the system never back feeds to the grid, can they tell on their end? Probably could by seeing the pattern that during the day the house uses zero electricity from the grid. And of course a visual inspection of the property.
Regardless though, it would still be cheaper to be on their solar plan and back feed into the grid to get the credits and also get the MUCH lower consumption kWh prices than to be on a regular plan in my opinion. I guess a lot of it depends on the system size...if it's a smaller system that doesn't produce enough to back feed the grid anyway, it may not be cheaper.Comment
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I pay $17.11 a month for the privilege of receiving an electronic bill $.40 more for a paper bill. This is whether I have solar or not. I pay $205.32 a year even if I use zero electricity from the grid.Comment
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