Faceplate between roof and panel

[Helmut]

I see in central california a solar system on the Roof make by solarcity that have faceplates between roof and panels.
On the one hand it is looking nice. On the other hand it is very counterproductive because that interfere the cooling of the Panels. (lower Efficiency with increase temperature)
In Germany is that nonstandard, to the contrary we often make the racking extra high for better cooling.
Me make it pain to see the faceplates, thinking of the loosing power. I would also affraid to make it self like that, because of the longlife of the panel (synthetic of back sheet).

Can it be that the faceplates must be for permit the System?

[russ]

I see in central california a solar system on the Roof make by solarcity that have faceplates between roof and panels.

Can it be that the faceplates must be for permit the System?

More like free advertising for Solar City - they are not worried about loss of production or later - bean counter types (accountant).

[J.P.M.]

I see in central california a solar system on the Roof make by solarcity that have faceplates between roof and panels.
On the one hand it is looking nice. On the other hand it is very counterproductive because that interfere the cooling of the Panels. (lower Efficiency with increase temperature)
In Germany is that nonstandard, to the contrary we often make the racking extra high for better cooling.
Me make it pain to see the faceplates, thinking of the loosing power. I would also affraid to make it self like that, because of the longlife of the panel (synthetic of back sheet).

Can it be that the faceplates must be for permit the System?

Welcome to California - things are not what they seem. Appearance often counts more than performance or common sense. A lot of dumb people don't help.

[PVAndy]

I see in central california a solar system on the Roof make by solarcity that have faceplates between roof and panels.
On the one hand it is looking nice. On the other hand it is very counterproductive because that interfere the cooling of the Panels. (lower Efficiency with increase temperature)
In Germany is that nonstandard, to the contrary we often make the racking extra high for better cooling.
Me make it pain to see the faceplates, thinking of the loosing power. I would also affraid to make it self like that, because of the longlife of the panel (synthetic of back sheet).

Can it be that the faceplates must be for permit the System?

I design in Conn which has not adopted the latest fire code yet. Most solar panels are Fire Code Class C rated. Roofs are rated Fire Codes A<B or C. The new code which i think is in effect in California says that the combined panel, racking and roof asembly cannot degrade the Fire Code rating of the roof when tested as an assembly. I read somewhere that one of the few ways to meet the code was to have a complete metal pan under the panel. They have to be tested and certified as a unit. since Solar City owns both a panel and a racking company it is possible that what you are seeing is a certified assembly. (Of course I could be totally off base)

Andy

[Helmut]

Hi Andy
I see only faceplates that you can not look in the room under the plates. They are at the sides of the Panel not under.
But what you say with the firecodes makes fear. It could be extrem in realationship of cost.
Positiv is that next Generation Panels would mostly have "glas to glas" not "glas to backsheet" like nearly al todays normal Panels. I think that Panels would be oneself absolut fire resistant.
Helmut

[PVAndy]

Hi Andy
I see only faceplates that you can not look in the room under the plates. They are at the sides of the Panel not under.
But what you say with the firecodes makes fear. It could be extrem in realationship of cost.
Positiv is that next Generation Panels would mostly have "glas to glas" not "glas to backsheet" like nearly al todays normal Panels. I think that Panels would be oneself absolut fire resistant.
Helmut

Helmut Sorry I did not visualize where they were. The are probably wind deflectors which limit the wind uplift. They can also help minimize the chimney effect which can occur in the space between the panels and the roof in a fire. They are usually used on the lower edge of arrays although on some commercial jobs we use them on every row.

[SunEagle]

Hi Andy
I see only faceplates that you can not look in the room under the plates. They are at the sides of the Panel not under.
But what you say with the firecodes makes fear. It could be extrem in realationship of cost.
Positiv is that next Generation Panels would mostly have "glas to glas" not "glas to backsheet" like nearly al todays normal Panels. I think that Panels would be oneself absolut fire resistant.
Helmut

The fire codes requiring the solar panel system to be the same Class rating as the roof is a recent change. I am sure it is making some panel manufacturers rethink what to do to comply with this new code. And like you I fear it will only raise the price and make it less cost affected to go with roof mounted solar panels.

When the new fire code that requires "total power disconnection" at the "source" or panel goes into affect it will put most String inverters out of business.

All these code changes come about when something happens and puts people's lives (like Firemen) in danger. To keep them safe the products must be built differently which usually costs more but will reduce injury from electrical shock or fire.

For most DIY it will be hard to keep up with the latest code because they keep changing.

[sdold]

When the new fire code that requires "total power disconnection" at the "source" or panel goes into affect it will put most String inverters out of business.

I've wondered about this. One work-around could be to have relays at the panels to disconnect the strings when AC is removed.

[SunEagle]

I've wondered about this. One work-around could be to have relays at the panels to disconnect the strings when AC is removed.

Or very smart micro inverters that shut down on command or loss of power from the grid.

[sensij]

Or very smart micro inverters that shut down on command or loss of power from the grid.

Yes, this is pretty much what SolarEdge does. If the string inverter is off or indicates the grid is down, the panel optimizers default to a 1 VDC output.

[SunEagle]

Yes, this is pretty much what SolarEdge does. If the string inverter is off or indicates the grid is down, the panel optimizers default to a 1 VDC output.

That's how I thought they worked. Like I said if that fire code passes everywhere then systems with only a string inverter will not meet the code. Someone would have to either install some type of DC contactor to kill power at each panel or micro inverters.

[bcroe]

I've wondered about this. One work-around could be to have relays at the panels to disconnect the strings when AC is removed.

Just doing a DC disconnect isn't enough; the strings would have to be broken up. Alternately,
I have suggested a solid state circuit that avoids all that hassle & high voltage, just shorting
each panel. A pair from a doorbell transformer would cancel the short until power went off.

Ground mount systems not affected. Bruce Roe

[sdold]

I'd feel pretty safe with both ends of the string disconnected at a box on the frame. It would be similar to having a double pole disconnect on a battery string. But I think your idea sounds good. You should perfect it and try to sell it.

[bcroe]

I'd feel pretty safe with both ends of the string disconnected at a box on the frame. It would be similar to having a double pole disconnect on a battery string. But I think your idea sounds good. You should perfect it and try to sell it. Steve Dold

I think its the most effective method, while avoiding high voltage (arc prone) disconnects
that aren't easily automated. To be practical, somebody needs to design the electronic
module to connect to a panel or pairs of panels. If the new law is enforced, it could become
an integral part of roof mount panels. It won't be me; too busy being retired. Bruce Roe

[PVAndy]

The fire codes requiring the solar panel system to be the same Class rating as the roof is a recent change. I am sure it is making some panel manufacturers rethink what to do to comply with this new code. And like you I fear it will only raise the price and make it less cost affected to go with roof mounted solar panels.

When the new fire code that requires "total power disconnection" at the "source" or panel goes into affect it will put most String inverters out of business.

All these code changes come about when something happens and puts people's lives (like Firemen) in danger. To keep them safe the products must be built differently which usually costs more but will reduce injury from electrical shock or fire.

For most DIY it will be hard to keep up with the latest code because they keep changing.

Which code is going to require Total Panel Disocnnection? Do you have a link. The most recent code I'm familiar with is NFPA70 / NEC 2014 which requires "Rapid Shutdown"

Thanks

Andy