Newbie on solar contract?

[Bikerscum]

Hi Ret,

I've talked with several SunPower dealers and it seems that SunPower is a solid choice to panels.

[SunEagle]

I would think so too. Certainly wouldn't say a competitors brand was better than mine.

Even if the installer wasn't connected to SunPower they still may suggest it because of the higher price tag and profits they would get.

[wirebender06]

I would think so too. Certainly wouldn't say a competitors brand was better than mine.

Even if the installer wasn't connected to SunPower they still may suggest it because of the higher price tag and profits they would get.

Am I missing something? I'm very new to the board. Can you elaborate on your thoughts regarding sunpower?

[J.P.M.]

Yea, we bought a EV this year so we are already losing $7500 of tax credit for this year with it, Retiring in june so next year will be less tax liability. Was hoping to use both years. I think I just took to long tying to figure this stuff out, may have screwed myself.
Not sure what I'm going to do from here.

Or maybe not. Get with your tax adviser. Some folks change std. IRA to Roth for example.

[SunEagle]

Am I missing something? I'm very new to the board. Can you elaborate on your thoughts regarding sunpower?

Just about all of the information I have read indicates that SunPower is the most expensive panel out there. And while it is more efficient (which only means you can use fewer panels for the same roof area) the % increase in efficiency doesn't necessarily justify the % increase in cost.

Best practice is to get multiple quotes from various vendors and panel manufacturers. Then compare the total cost before any incentives as a $/WDC rating.

Remember the seller will try to get as much as possible from you using all types of "data" to confuse you and win you over to what could be a very profitable sale for him.

Before purchasing anything get more data, quotes, do the research and ask more questions. The more you know about a solar installation the better you will see through that "sales talk" and you should be able to get a good price.

[J.P.M.]

Hi Ret,

I've just started looking into systems in the Sacramento area. I've talked with several SunPower dealers and it seems that SunPower is a solid choice to panels. I haven't looked at Solar Edge , why is that your preferred combo with Sunpower panels?

Thanks!

I'm sure S.P. dealers think it's a solid choice.

Sunpower (S.P) is great stuff. So is a Mercedes, but a Ford is probably an equally adequate grocery hauler. Pay your money - take your choice. I'd only suggest you walk in with your eyes open.

What S.P. doesn't seem to mention is that given quality equipment, equal (electrical) size systems, including S.P. and others, will initially produce close to the same annual output for the same location and orientation. S.P. will perform about the same as the others but will do so with a smaller footprint - that's the biggest reason for the claim of "most efficient" - it's an AREA efficiency, NOT a cost efficiency, and for somewhere between a 15% to 30% up front $$ premium. So, if roof real estate is valuable to you S.P. may be the way to go. If your roof is smaller, reducing the elec. bill is almost always more cost effective than solar in any case, and particularly when S.P. is considered as a solution to the limited space situation.

S.P. warranty may be better. Paying a premium for it seems to some as somewhat analogous to being insurance poor. Besides, if the panels are so good, why is such a warranty necessary in the first place ? Are you paying for quality or insurance ? Paying for both seems a bit inconsistent to me at least.

As for more output over time - also true, no question. The question is, combined with a perhaps better warranty, how much is it all worth as an upfront premium ?

Depending on opinion, inclination, how much you believe the S.P. hype and a lot of other things - maybe some up front premium may be worth it.

FWIW, Given a 20 yr. or so time frame, I'm of the opinion that a premium of about 5% or so may be justified for my situation, less for shorter periods. I'd have a hard time making a case for more than that. But, opinions vary and its a free country. Solar electric is an appliance that is becoming a commodity, not a lifestyle. S.P. may well give bragging rights and little else.

As I suggest, pay your money, take your choice. Just walk in with your mind and eyes open and know that S.P. is not only NOT the only choice, but may NOT be THE BEST for your situation. In any case it's probably not the most cost effective way to reduce an electric bill.

[wirebender06]

Tax incentive

The reason I was leaning towards this dealer is he was willing to use SolarEdge with the sun power panels.
Also said he could get it done so we don't lose this year tax incentives

My understanding is that the 30% federal tax incentive for solar does not expire until 12/31/16. The only reason to rush to have a system installed is if you want to claim the credit on that calendar years taxes, you need to have the install completed before the end of the year.

Is that correct?

[wirebender06]

I'm sure S.P. dealers think it's a solid choice.

Sunpower (S.P) is great stuff. So is a Mercedes, but a Ford is probably an equally adequate grocery hauler. Pay your money - take your choice. I'd only suggest you walk in with your eyes open.

What S.P. doesn't seem to mention is that given quality equipment, equal (electrical) size systems, including S.P. and others, will initially produce close to the same annual output for the same location and orientation. S.P. will perform about the same as the others but will do so with a smaller footprint - that's the biggest reason for the claim of "most efficient" - it's an AREA efficiency, NOT a cost efficiency, and for somewhere between a 15% to 30% up front $$ premium. So, if roof real estate is valuable to you S.P. may be the way to go. If your roof is smaller, reducing the elec. bill is almost always more cost effective than solar in any case, and particularly when S.P. is considered as a solution to the limited space situation.

S.P. warranty may be better. Paying a premium for it seems to some as somewhat analogous to being insurance poor. Besides, if the panels are so good, why is such a warranty necessary in the first place ? Are you paying for quality or insurance ? Paying for both seems a bit inconsistent to me at least.

As for more output over time - also true, no question. The question is, combined with a perhaps better warranty, how much is it all worth as an upfront premium ?

Depending on opinion, inclination, how much you believe the S.P. hype and a lot of other things - maybe some up front premium may be worth it.

FWIW, Given a 20 yr. or so time frame, I'm of the opinion that a premium of about 5% or so may be justified for my situation, less for shorter periods. I'd have a hard time making a case for more than that. But, opinions vary and its a free country. Solar electric is an appliance that is becoming a commodity, not a lifestyle. S.P. may well give bragging rights and little else.

As I suggest, pay your money, take your choice. Just walk in with your mind and eyes open and know that S.P. is not only NOT the only choice, but may NOT be THE BEST for your situation. In any case it's probably not the most cost effective way to reduce an electric bill.

J.P.M,

Thanks for the excellent perspective. At least its good to know that if you're willing to pay a premium for S.P., at least you are getting a quality product.

When calculating $/W DC, is the standard to look at the price before or after the incentives (tax credit, dealer incentive, power company rebate)?

I've met with some larger local companies and some smaller ones too. I do like the idea of working with a smaller company ,but have qualms about their experience level and their longevity in the business.

The other hard thing is that there are so many different makes/models so to speak and you really can't compare them. They may have the same output but I don't feel its easy to make apples to apples comparisons.

My roof is decent without any shading issues, I'm trying to build a system that is going to produce about 110% of my current use, which can give my family room to grow.

Thanks, this forum is amazing with lots of good knowledge!

J

[Mb190e]

When I got quotes for sun power the closest one to the system I got was $12,000 more expensive. I was not limited on roof space we installed solar world 270. 8.1 kW. As far as the warranty goes, Way I look at it is. I now have $12,000 I can use for warranty repairs and panel replacements which may never happen.

[thejq]

When calculating $/W DC, is the standard to look at the price before or after the incentives (tax credit, dealer incentive, power company rebate)?

Yes, always compare $ before all the incentives.

I've met with some larger local companies and some smaller ones too. I do like the idea of working with a smaller company ,but have qualms about their experience level and their longevity in the business.

Big companies can go belly up just as fast. Just look at Apple's former supplier GTAT who went from a $1.4B co to BK in one day with one simple mistake (promised Apple too much but can't deliver). If you can find a reasonably sized diversified (not just solar) local company that's been in the business for a long time with good reviews, that would be the best.

The other hard thing is that there are so many different makes/models so to speak and you really can't compare them. They may have the same output but I don't feel its easy to make apples to apples comparisons.

Pure panel defects are rare. PV technology is relatively mature now. Ratings on major brands are mostly accurate, so a lot of times, the choice comes down to the power density you want and how comfortable you're with a particular brand, and their bankability in the long term.

[wirebender06]

I guess I'm fortunate in my area that the prices quoted for S.P. aren't much higher than for other panels ( LG, Solar World, Hanwha). The quote that I got for S.P. panels and 2 SMA Inverters came out to $4.00/W DC before incentives , and $2.50/W DC after incentives. I'll keep looking for now to make sure that's my best option available.

Thanks!

[sensij]

I guess I'm fortunate in my area that the prices quoted for S.P. aren't much higher than for other panels ( LG, Solar World, Hanwha). The quote that I got for S.P. panels and 2 SMA Inverters came out to $4.00/W DC before incentives , and $2.50/W DC after incentives. I'll keep looking for now to make sure that's my best option available.

Thanks!

At wholesale prices, Sunpower panels are 2X per watt what others cost. With the rest of the installation cost accounted for, this usually works out to the 15%-30% total premium that J.P.M. mentioned. If your installer is quoting nearly the same prices for Sunpower as for the other panels you mentioned, they are marking those other panels up by a lot. You should be able to do better if you keep looking.

[J.P.M.]

I guess I'm fortunate in my area that the prices quoted for S.P. aren't much higher than for other panels ( LG, Solar World, Hanwha). The quote that I got for S.P. panels and 2 SMA Inverters came out to $4.00/W DC before incentives , and $2.50/W DC after incentives. I'll keep looking for now to make sure that's my best option available.

Thanks!

If you were quoted $4.00/Watt installed for a S.P. system before incentives, that's far and away the cheapest I've heard about. I'd get it in writing and read the contract with a magnifying glass. I don't want to sound completely cynical, but I'm reminded of the idea that a deal that seems too good to be true probably isn't (true). Also, as said elsewhere, if S.P. is that low, others may well be lower in comparison.

BIG caveat Emptor on that one. But if it works out to be correct, it may mean other prices in your area are dropping accordingly.

That's a purchase price right? Not a prepaid lease ?

[J.P.M.]

J.P.M,

Thanks for the excellent perspective. At least its good to know that if you're willing to pay a premium for S.P., at least you are getting a quality product.

When calculating $/W DC, is the standard to look at the price before or after the incentives (tax credit, dealer incentive, power company rebate)?

I've met with some larger local companies and some smaller ones too. I do like the idea of working with a smaller company ,but have qualms about their experience level and their longevity in the business.

The other hard thing is that there are so many different makes/models so to speak and you really can't compare them. They may have the same output but I don't feel its easy to make apples to apples comparisons.

My roof is decent without any shading issues, I'm trying to build a system that is going to produce about 110% of my current use, which can give my family room to grow.

Thanks, this forum is amazing with lots of good knowledge!

J

Your Welcome. How excellent or not is a matter of some opinion. Take what you need & leave the rest.
Usually, prices are quoted before incentives. Keeps everyone on the same page.

Solar panels are becoming a commodity. A lot of the differences, such as they may exist do so in the imagination of the marketers rather than in the product.

Also, a last pitch: as usual, do as you think best, but walk in knowing that a case can be made from a cost effective standpoint for not replacing the cheapest electricity part of your bill with solar, that is less than 100% offset.

[wirebender06]

If you were quoted $4.00/Watt installed for a S.P. system before incentives, that's far and away the cheapest I've heard about. I'd get it in writing and read the contract with a magnifying glass. I don't want to sound completely cynical, but I'm reminded of the idea that a deal that seems too good to be true probably isn't (true). Also, as said elsewhere, if S.P. is that low, others may well be lower in comparison.

BIG caveat Emptor on that one. But if it works out to be correct, it may mean other prices in your area are dropping accordingly.

That's a purchase price right? Not a prepaid lease ?

Yes that's purchase price.

I do realize that there's an argument for sizing a system to get you into but not to replace your lower tier power usage. I figure if i'm going to invest in the system, i just dont' want to come up short as my family grows and our power needs increase with time. I do have visions of more A/C usage , an EV in the future, and possibly a heat pump for the pool.