Electric panel upgrade?

[nomadh]

I've been told by a few people now that I'll probably need this. The problem is I'm hearing its $2200 to maybe $2700. Have many people in homes from the 60's needed to do this. I'm being quoted systems from 5700 to 6700 watt DC. My panel is an old pushbutton breaker system possibly with a 100 main but so far no one seems sure its so old and odd. Is it normal to upgrade and should it cost so much?

[inetdog]

It is normal to have to do a panel upgrade, especially on an older construction house. And based on your description, the old panel is one which is just one generation removed from screw in fuses. It would be a good idea to replace that anyway.
And, considering permit fees and other overhead expenses, $2-3000 is not unreasonable. Painful, but not unreasonable.

As some small consolation, you should be able to roll that expense into the installation cost for a tax credit, so better now than separately.

[MGE]

Those prices that you have been quoted seem high to me. When I had my business running here in SD (IBEW Union shop 96-2012) Typical cost to upgrade a panel was around $1,500. Thats for a 200 amp panel. If your existing panel is 60amps increase it to the 200a the price will be about the same as a 100a. Same labor cost just a bit more for the materials. Good luck.

[foo1bar]

Those prices that you have been quoted seem high to me. When I had my business running here in SD (IBEW Union shop 96-2012) Typical cost to upgrade a panel was around $1,500. Thats for a 200 amp panel. If your existing panel is 60amps increase it to the 200a the price will be about the same as a 100a. Same labor cost just a bit more for the materials. Good luck.

$2200-2700 seem low to me - but I had to run new underground conduit.
It was $500 for just the 2/0 copper wires coming from the utility to my meter. Add in trenching, conduit, the panel/meter itself, and labor... I don't see an electrician doing it for $2700 and staying in business.

If it had been overhead, so no trenching, then $1500-$2200 is possible. (couldn't believe how expensive copper wire was when I bought that.... I think it was ~$2.20/foot per conductor.)

[inetdog]

... (couldn't believe how expensive copper wire was when I bought that.... I think it was ~$2.20/foot per conductor.)

Which is why, as long as space is available in the conduit or the run is overhead, aluminum conductors are often used instead. When terminated correctly they can be perfectly safe, and the NEC is happy with them too.
You do have to make sure that the equipment (panel, etc.) is rated for use with Al wire and the lugs can accept the larger diameter necessary for Al at the same current level.

[foo1bar]

Which is why, as long as space is available in the conduit or the run is overhead, aluminum conductors are often used instead. When terminated correctly they can be perfectly safe, and the NEC is happy with them too.
You do have to make sure that the equipment (panel, etc.) is rated for use with Al wire and the lugs can accept the larger diameter necessary for Al at the same current level.

Yep.
Would have been ~$2.75/foot for 4/0 alum. Instead of ~$6.60/foot for 2/0 copper.
So would have been a $200 cost for the wire instead of $500.

But I had it cut and then circumstances took me down a path where I actually *could* have done alum. And by that time it was too late - once it's cut to length there's no returning it.

[Sunnyvalejohn]

Those prices that you have been quoted seem high to me. When I had my business running here in SD (IBEW Union shop 96-2012) Typical cost to upgrade a panel was around $1,500. Thats for a 200 amp panel. If your existing panel is 60amps increase it to the 200a the price will be about the same as a 100a. Same labor cost just a bit more for the materials. Good luck.

Wish I had you around here in the Bay Area! I was getting quotes for just a panel upgrade from 100a Zinsco piece of #$#@ to 200a in stucco and the prices ran $2500 to $3800. Yeesh.

[dat]

Wish I had you around here in the Bay Area! I was getting quotes for just a panel upgrade from 100a Zinsco piece of #$#@ to 200a in stucco and the prices ran $2500 to $3800. Yeesh.

If he lives in the Bay Area, then his quote will be different.

[JCP]

If he lives in the Bay Area, then his quote will be different.

Well, in the bay area, if you have to replace underground conduit, I was told $7 to $10K...

[Sunking]

Wish I had you around here in the Bay Area! I was getting quotes for just a panel upgrade from 100a Zinsco piece of #$#@ to 200a in stucco and the prices ran $2500 to $3800. Yeesh.

Zinsco translated to English means Burning Down the House. Zinsco was sued out of business because of a design flaw which the circuit breakers connection to the bus bar becomes loose causing arcing and over heating resulting in fire. They are such a liability Electricians will not work on a house if they have a Zinsco panels as they are too much risk and liability. In the electrical trade last man who works on it owns it. No electrician wants to be caught as the Last Man working on a building with a Zinsco panel. Breakers are still available made by GE and others that fix the problem but they are very expensive due to the liability. In all cases it is just less expensive and less risk to just replace the whole panel and be done with it.

[nomadh]

Thanks for all the replies. Sorry I somehow missed them till now. I had another quote and got more info recently. Yes mine is overhead cabled and that the homeowner pays for the new bigger riser conduit through the roof. It was implied to me that sdge pays for the wire overhead to my panel. Mine currently is a push button bulldog 100 amp it seems. Mounted on the outside of the garage in stucco. It also seems most of my circuits were done in aluminum. Lucky me. So thats not great but the house is 3 prog wired and although AL causes more potential problems the electricians seem to have no problem dealing with it. I did have 1 company say if I downsized my system (to less than 5.7 kw I believe) I could maybe skip the upgrade but the 2 electricians who've seen it say I should upgrade the old panel even if I never do solar. But then, every problem looks like a nail to a hammer
Thanks for all your input so far on this journey.

[Sunking]

If it were me I would be calling a Real-Estate agent.

[Sunnyvalejohn]

Zinsco translated to English means Burning Down the House. Zinsco was sued out of business because of a design flaw which the circuit breakers connection to the bus bar becomes loose causing arcing and over heating resulting in fire. They are such a liability Electricians will not work on a house if they have a Zinsco panels as they are too much risk and liability. In the electrical trade last man who works on it owns it. No electrician wants to be caught as the Last Man working on a building with a Zinsco panel. Breakers are still available made by GE and others that fix the problem but they are very expensive due to the liability. In all cases it is just less expensive and less risk to just replace the whole panel and be done with it.

Thanks! Now you tell me Glad to be rid of it. Just got a new Siemens Solar-Ready Electrical Panel. I took pictures and posted on my thread over here. http://www.solarpaneltalk.com/showth...ns-Solar-Ready

Cheers,
John

[nomadh]

If it were me I would be calling a Real-Estate agent.

Should I really be that worried about al wiring? I think there are millions of unburnt houses out there like mine. Truth is I would have skipped over this house for a number of reasonsand the only selling point is that my mother in law wanted her daughter to have it and sold it to us at about 1/2 price and let us keep her tax rate. So pretty good deal for 1/2 price.

[inetdog]

Should I really be that worried about al wiring? I think there are millions of unburnt houses out there like mine. Truth is I would have skipped over this house for a number of reasonsand the only selling point is that my mother in law wanted her daughter to have it and sold it to us at about 1/2 price and let us keep her tax rate. So pretty good deal for 1/2 price.

Al wiring properly installed, using fixtures and devices designed for connecting both Cu and Al wires can be perfectly safe. A lot safer than Zinsco power panels for sure!
The problem is that much of the Al wiring was installed before its problems were understood and the wrong connecting practices were followed, treating it just as the electricians has treated the Cu wire they were used to.

For a house that has OLD Al wiring, the simplest way to make it far safer is to hire an electrician to open up every place that Al wires are connected (switches, lights, appliances) and add a short piece of copper wire to each end, using an approved wire nut or crimped splice, with an anti-oxidant coating added during assembly.
Or you could replace all of the switches, receptacles and wire nuts in the house with ones approved for Al wiring.

There are millions of unburnt houses like yours out there, along with tens of thousands that have suffered a small, large, or total electrical fires. How do you feel about the odds?