Best way to monitor SMA SunnyBoy inverters?

[macholini]

Hi, I am about to sign a contract on a 9.9 kW system:

33 LG 300N1C-B3 panels
SMA SB5000TL-US-22 + SB4000TL-US-22 inverters

I am now trying to figure out the best monitoring option for the above and can use advice from the gurus here. Ideally, I'd like to monitor 2 inverters with 2 strings each independently (as well as the combined output) so I can try to spot discrepancies in production. Also, I'd like to be able to export the data to PVoutput so I can combine it with consumption data (e.g., from a zigbee smart meter, which I should be able to get from PG&E).

Here are some of the options I am considering:

1) Use the built-in bluetooth in the inverters along with free SunnyExplorer Windows app and free / open-source tools for auto-uploading to PVoutput (e.g. PV Bean Counter, SMA Spot, android applications, etc.). This is free but it seems bluetooth connection can be flakey and I am not sure how well it would support 2 separate inverters with 2 independently tracked strings each. My main concern with this option is how reliable this setup would be and how much time I'd need to spend debugging connection issues... Any first hand experience here would be very welcome.

2) Use SMA Webconnect -- this is perhaps the simplest approach and would auto-upload to SunnyPortal but I may have issues auto-uploading to PVoutput (I would still need to use one of the above open-source tools for that and they may or may not work reliably with Webconnect but at least I should have the SunnyPortal option). Also, since I'll have 2 inverts, I would need 2 Webconnect adapters + a wi-fi extender so the cost would be $600...

3) Use SMA Webbox -- this is likely even more expensive but unlocks more data and custom pages on SunnyPortal (voltages, power, etc.) and makes the auto-upload to PVoutput more reliable.

4) Use a vendor-independent solution like TED (www.theenergydetective.com) or eGauge (www.egauge.net). These can monitor not only production but also consumption so I can get an integrated view of energy production, total consumption, and net consumption. These systems measure current through the breakers and would not be as accurate as the other options, which read out the data straight from the inverters.

I am not sure if there are other options I should consider. Would appreciate input on any of the above, esp. w.r.t. monitoring multiple inverters / strings, reliability, and ability to export to PVoutput.

If you have an SMA inverter, what monitoring system do you use, and are you happy with it?

Thanks in advance!

[Mb190e]

I have the SMA Sonnyboy SB5000TL-US and SB3000TL-US I can't speak to the monitoring that SMA offers the only things I didn't like was the cost and third-party portal to access all my data. I personally use the Ted 5000 to monitor my production and my usage. The Ted works very well for me. I can see exactly what I'm using, and what I make. It outputs automatically to PVOutput. I use the PVOutput app on my phone to see what I make and what I'm using remotely. I have 30 panels in 3 strings 8.1 kW

[logdin]

webbox to pvoutput?

I am not an SMA owner, but do have many SMA owners on Team San Diego (PVoutput). Some are using webbox, others have built raspberry pi's for logging. There is an autoloader for webbox on pvoutput.

PVOutput is a terrific service thats free or about $8.50/year if you want all the enhanced features including consumption monitoring. You can monitor consumption with many products, but in San Diego and SDGE, the Rainforest Eagle combined with Wattvision and PVOutput gives you near realtime results and is very accurate. The Eagle is $99 from amazon, and to get Net value readings on PVOutput is about $8.50/year. There is no scripting or extra computer required. Just a network connection for the Eagle. Slam dunk easy.

[TD22057]

I started looking at https://sbfspot.codeplex.com/ to read data from my WebConnect box (which was based on https://sbfspot.codeplex.com/). I didn't like the C interface very much so I re-wrote the basic communication system in Python. I have my Eagle electric meter using my home server (Linux box but a Raspberry Pi would work fine) as its "cloud device" and I'm polling the WebConnect box on my SMA inverter at regular intervals to log my electric usage and solar production.

I haven't put the code up anywhere yet but if you're interested in looking at it let me know. It would require some python programming skills to rework it for your setup but it shouldn't be that difficult to do.

[solar pete]

I started looking at https://sbfspot.codeplex.com/ to read data from my WebConnect box (which was based on https://sbfspot.codeplex.com/). I didn't like the C interface very much so I re-wrote the basic communication system in Python. I have my Eagle electric meter using my home server (Linux box but a Raspberry Pi would work fine) as its "cloud device" and I'm polling the WebConnect box on my SMA inverter at regular intervals to log my electric usage and solar production.

I haven't put the code up anywhere yet but if you're interested in looking at it let me know. It would require some python programming skills to rework it for your setup but it shouldn't be that difficult to do.

Hi TD22057 and welcome to Solar Panel Talk,

We have a rule about no posting links for newbies and that we discourage those seeking free advertising. However as your links relate directly to the thread I will let it slide, this time, cheers.

[macholini]

I ended up using SMA Webconnect, which pushes to SunnyPortal, plus I use SBFspot w/ the Webconnect interface to poll the inverters every 5 mins and upload to PVOutput. I then use Rainforest Eagle to monitor my POCO meter over zigbee and get consumption data pushed to wattvision, which then gets polled by PVOutput every 5 mins. That way, I can overlay generation data from SBFspot + Webconnect and consumption data from Rainforest Eagle + wattvision. It works great.

The problem I ran into is that the Eagle reports a single number at each timepoint, which is the net consumption (i.e., total consumption - generation), and it can be positive or negative. When it gets uploaded on PVOutput, it gets interpreted as total consumption (not net), and negative numbers get mapped to 0. PVOutput then calculates its own net consumption number by subtracting the generation data at that time point again... Obviously, that's wrong but I haven't figured out how to fix it so for now I ignore the net number that PVOutput gives me. I am hoping this is a mis-configuration matter that I can fix though.

[logdin]

I ended up using SMA Webconnect, which pushes to SunnyPortal, plus I use SBFspot w/ the Webconnect interface to poll the inverters every 5 mins and upload to PVOutput. I then use Rainforest Eagle to monitor my POCO meter over zigbee and get consumption data pushed to wattvision, which then gets polled by PVOutput every 5 mins. That way, I can overlay generation data from SBFspot + Webconnect and consumption data from Rainforest Eagle + wattvision. It works great.

The problem I ran into is that the Eagle reports a single number at each timepoint, which is the net consumption (i.e., total consumption - generation), and it can be positive or negative. When it gets uploaded on PVOutput, it gets interpreted as total consumption (not net), and negative numbers get mapped to 0. PVOutput then calculates its own net consumption number by subtracting the generation data at that time point again... Obviously, that's wrong but I haven't figured out how to fix it so for now I ignore the net number that PVOutput gives me. I am hoping this is a mis-configuration matter that I can fix though.

Make the the donation to Pvoutput, then set direction to net for wattvision setting in pvoutput

[macholini]

Make the the donation to Pvoutput, then set direction to net for wattvision setting in pvoutput

Ah, thank you! Just changed it.

Do you happen to know if this will apply the correction to all my consumption data retroactively?

[logdin]

Ah, thank you! Just changed it.

Do you happen to know if this will apply the correction to all my consumption data retroactively?

I don't think so. My understanding is Net calcs are done as data is received. At this time there is no wattvision backload, but BB is considering it. Not sure how far away it is. And, if you are using free wattvision plan, the best you could hope for is 30 days.

[wrlsguy]

I ended up using SMA Webconnect, which pushes to SunnyPortal, plus I use SBFspot w/ the Webconnect interface to poll the inverters every 5 mins and upload to PVOutput. I then use Rainforest Eagle to monitor my POCO meter over zigbee and get consumption data pushed to wattvision, which then gets polled by PVOutput every 5 mins. That way, I can overlay generation data from SBFspot + Webconnect and consumption data from Rainforest Eagle + wattvision. It works great.

The problem I ran into is that the Eagle reports a single number at each timepoint, which is the net consumption (i.e., total consumption - generation), and it can be positive or negative. When it gets uploaded on PVOutput, it gets interpreted as total consumption (not net), and negative numbers get mapped to 0. PVOutput then calculates its own net consumption number by subtracting the generation data at that time point again... Obviously, that's wrong but I haven't figured out how to fix it so for now I ignore the net number that PVOutput gives me. I am hoping this is a mis-configuration matter that I can fix though.

With the Webconnect, are you able to monitor each string on a two input inverter independently through Sunnyportal? I just installed a SB3800-TL-22 and it seems to only report the output of the two strings as a total value.

[macholini]

With the Webconnect, are you able to monitor each string on a two input inverter independently through Sunnyportal? I just installed a SB3800-TL-22 and it seems to only report the output of the two strings as a total value.

You can't do per-string monitoring on Sunnyportal through Webconnect but you can use Sunny Explorer (free windows app) to see instantaneous per-string values (power, voltage, current, temperature, etc.) separately. If you want to have that data persisted somewhere, then you can setup SBFspot which uses the Webconnect API to poll the instantaneous values every 5 mins, puts them in a database on your computer, and uploads to PVOutput. E.g., here is the PVOutput link to one of my inverters, which has per-string data uploaded in the extended fields:

http://pvoutput.org/intraday.jsp?id=35187&sid=33757

Unfortunately, the per-string data doesn't include energy values since that requires integration of power over time, and the inverter only reports instantaneous values per-string, not averages per time period (it does support aggregate energy values for the whole inverter only). You could compute the per-string energy by polling more frequently and doing the power integration yourself but you'd need to write code for that. There was a feature request to add this functionality to SBFspot but AFAIK, there are no current plans for that.

[wrlsguy]

You can't do per-string monitoring on Sunnyportal through Webconnect but you can use Sunny Explorer (free windows app) to see instantaneous per-string values (power, voltage, current, temperature, etc.) separately. If you want to have that data persisted somewhere, then you can setup SBFspot which uses the Webconnect API to poll the instantaneous values every 5 mins, puts them in a database on your computer, and uploads to PVOutput. E.g., here is the PVOutput link to one of my inverters, which has per-string data uploaded in the extended fields:

http://pvoutput.org/intraday.jsp?id=35187&sid=33757

Unfortunately, the per-string data doesn't include energy values since that requires integration of power over time, and the inverter only reports instantaneous values per-string, not averages per time period (it does support aggregate energy values for the whole inverter only). You could compute the per-string energy by polling more frequently and doing the power integration yourself but you'd need to write code for that. There was a feature request to add this functionality to SBFspot but AFAIK, there are no current plans for that.

Thanks for the detailed answer. It looks like the SB3800-TL-22 does not have the built in Bluetooth for connection to Sunny Explorer so this install will have to stick with Sunny Portal.

[macholini]

Thanks for the detailed answer. It looks like the SB3800-TL-22 does not have the built in Bluetooth for connection to Sunny Explorer so this install will have to stick with Sunny Portal.

Sunny Explorer can talk to the inverter through the Webconnect interface, that's how mine is setup. But Webconnect is optional on that inverter and if you get it, then you are getting Sunny Portal anyway. So you either get both or you get none.

[haggan]

I haven't put the code up anywhere yet but if you're interested in looking at it let me know. It would require some python programming skills to rework it for your setup but it shouldn't be that difficult to do.

Hej I am much interested in your python script.

[TD22057]

Hej I am much interested in your python script.

OK - I'm on travel for the next couple of weeks but I'll put it on github when I get back (Oct 22 or so).