Cost per Watt in SF Bay Area?; system cost difference with SolarEdge vs. SMA?

[will3700]

On the CSI database:

- Since the residential program is pretty much over, current activity in the CSI database is for commercial, non profit and gov't. applications. The rebate schemes are different, and the systems are usually much larger than most residential stuff. I think the last commonly sized residential sys. was opened 05/18/2014 at about 6 kW size. Not much of anything applicable to residential since then - price or size.

- Now that system prices, sizes and equipment are effectively hidden from public view, prices may be going up some.

- Get rid of the extraneous clutter: Sort the database by date, add a col. for $/nameplate Watt and filter for residential jobs.

On Prices:

- Based on system size and your location, the pricing you have doesn't seem too far out of line if at all. Just go with a reputable electrical contractor who's been around longer than solar. Buy cheap. Buy twice.

- $3.50/Watt is still possible in San Diego for decent stuff. For some reason No. CA seems more/Watt. Also, smaller systems will cost more/Watt.

Thanks much, JPM - and Bikerscum. I read several of both of your comments before signing up here. Your input is invaluable to people like me, looking to put in our first solar systems. I almost did what you said with the CSI database, but I was using the CEC rating instead of the Nameplate. I'll fix, delete the noise, and slice and dice to see what I can learn. But my guess is: given the changes in data collection, that this forum is now probably more valuable than the CSI site for gauging installer quotes.

Thanks for confirming that my quotes are not out of line. The one question I'm left with: is SolarEdge more costly (parts, labor) than SMA, and therefore it is reasonable for an installer to charge more with SE? My guess: perhaps a couple 100 bucks more - but not enough to justify a large differential in pricing.

[Bikerscum]

From what I've seen, the SF Bay area is definitely more expensive than SoCal.

As said I think it's your system size that's skewing things. For example I got quoted $3.55/w for Solarworld 275 mono black with Solaredge optimizers/inverter, but it was for 22 of them. As the system size gets smaller, some of the costs are still fixed so get divided by fewer watts.

Good luck in the hunt.

[J.P.M.]

Newby here from the Silicon Desert formerly known as Silicon Valley. Uber serious drought conditions. Maybe I should also start looking for a desalination forum.
With a batch of quotes in hand, I have been scouring the pages here, as well as CSI, to try to ascertain $/watt standards/ranges for the SF/Silicon Valley area for a 3.5-3.7kw system. Sparring with vendors for a week or so, here’s what I have collected:

1) 13 SolarWorld 275w + SMA. 3.575kw@$3.80/w = $13,585
2) 13 Mitsubishi 265w + SMA. 3.445kw@$3.75/w = $12,922
3) 14 Mitsubishi 265w + SolarEdge 5000. 3.71kw@$3.83/w = $14,200
4) 13 Suniva 270w+SMA. 3.51W@$3.85/w = $13,515

I’m leaning towards either 1) or 3). PG&E just cranked up Tier 1 rates, so I want to cover 80+% of our energy use. And I suspect with solar, we will use more energy (i.e., turn on the A/C more often in the summer).

So two questions:

1) I have seen people post $/watt numbers much lower than these. One person in San Diego quoted “just south of $3.50”. Another posted somewhere (can’t find it now!) “Kyocera runs about $3.50 - $3.75/Watt in So. CA, LG about $3.40-$3.70/Watt”. I recall seeing much lower numbers – heading towards $3/watt - in other states. I think someone from Maryland quoted around $3.20…which is phenomenal.

So my question is: am I not grinding hard enough on these guys? A couple of vendors have been willing to move – and they are reflected in the numbers above. Others choose not to respond to my ‘suggestions’ for a better deal, and are sitting at or north of $4.00. Needless to say, they won’t get my business.

Or – are prices in the Bay Area just higher than everywhere else?

I also do not see stats on CSI that support lower prices per watt. In fact – doing a search on the following web page – for 2014, Residential only, and within 50 miles of my zip code – prices for comparably sized systems are between $5.64-$5.99/watt. That makes no sense:

http://www.californiasolarstatistics.ca.gov/reports/cost_vs_system_size/

I also downloaded the database from CSI – and again, from what I see – numbers below $4.00/watt are the exception – not the norm – even for installs over the last 6 months.
Am I looking in the wrong place on CSI? Is there some place or query on CSI that shows that 3.5kW systems in the bay area really should be around $3.50/w?

2) Per the Mitsubishi quotes above, one installer is pricing systems with SolarEdge (5000) higher than with SMA (3800). He says it’s not due to different capacities. He says that the cost of the optimizers makes SolarEdge more expensive. Other installers don’t care which inverter I choose: SE, Enphase or SMA – the system price is the same.

Is the first guy blowing smoke about SE costing more? Or are the other guys taking a margin hit, because they have already padded the system price enough? I don't need SE, because there's no shade problem - now. I do want panel monitoring. A single panel with low production might indicate dirt, or bird poo, or something requiring attention. Seems useful to me.

Thanks for reading the core dump on my “Solar Quest”!

On the CSI database:

- Since the residential program is pretty much over, current activity in the CSI database is for commercial, non profit and gov't. applications. The rebate schemes are different, and the systems are usually much larger than most residential stuff. I think the last commonly sized residential sys. was opened 05/18/2014 at about 6 kW size. Not much of anything applicable to residential since then - price or size.

- Now that system prices, sizes and equipment are effectively hidden from public view, prices may be going up some.

- Get rid of the extraneous clutter: Sort the database by date, add a col. for $/nameplate Watt and filter for residential jobs.

On Prices:

- Based on system size and your location, the pricing you have doesn't seem too far out of line if at all. Just go with a reputable electrical contractor who's been around longer than solar. Buy cheap. Buy twice.

- $3.50/Watt is still possible in San Diego for decent stuff. For some reason No. CA seems more/Watt. Also, smaller systems will cost more/Watt.

[will3700]

Newby here from the Silicon Desert formerly known as Silicon Valley. Uber serious drought conditions. Maybe I should also start looking for a desalination forum.
With a batch of quotes in hand, I have been scouring the pages here, as well as CSI, to try to ascertain $/watt standards/ranges for the SF/Silicon Valley area for a 3.5-3.7kw system. Sparring with vendors for a week or so, here’s what I have collected:

1) 13 SolarWorld 275w + SMA. 3.575kw@$3.80/w = $13,585
2) 13 Mitsubishi 265w + SMA. 3.445kw@$3.75/w = $12,922
3) 14 Mitsubishi 265w + SolarEdge 5000. 3.71kw@$3.83/w = $14,200
4) 13 Suniva 270w+SMA. 3.51W@$3.85/w = $13,515

I’m leaning towards either 1) or 3). PG&E just cranked up Tier 1 rates, so I want to cover 80+% of our energy use. And I suspect with solar, we will use more energy (i.e., turn on the A/C more often in the summer).

So two questions:

1) I have seen people post $/watt numbers much lower than these. One person in San Diego quoted “just south of $3.50”. Another posted somewhere (can’t find it now!) “Kyocera runs about $3.50 - $3.75/Watt in So. CA, LG about $3.40-$3.70/Watt”. I recall seeing much lower numbers – heading towards $3/watt - in other states. I think someone from Maryland quoted around $3.20…which is phenomenal.

So my question is: am I not grinding hard enough on these guys? A couple of vendors have been willing to move – and they are reflected in the numbers above. Others choose not to respond to my ‘suggestions’ for a better deal, and are sitting at or north of $4.00. Needless to say, they won’t get my business.

Or – are prices in the Bay Area just higher than everywhere else?

I also do not see stats on CSI that support lower prices per watt. In fact – doing a search on the following web page – for 2014, Residential only, and within 50 miles of my zip code – prices for comparably sized systems are between $5.64-$5.99/watt. That makes no sense:

http://www.californiasolarstatistics.ca.gov/reports/cost_vs_system_size/

I also downloaded the database from CSI – and again, from what I see – numbers below $4.00/watt are the exception – not the norm – even for installs over the last 6 months.
Am I looking in the wrong place on CSI? Is there some place or query on CSI that shows that 3.5kW systems in the bay area really should be around $3.50/w?

2) Per the Mitsubishi quotes above, one installer is pricing systems with SolarEdge (5000) higher than with SMA (3800). He says it’s not due to different capacities. He says that the cost of the optimizers makes SolarEdge more expensive. Other installers don’t care which inverter I choose: SE, Enphase or SMA – the system price is the same.

Is the first guy blowing smoke about SE costing more? Or are the other guys taking a margin hit, because they have already padded the system price enough? I don't need SE, because there's no shade problem - now. I do want panel monitoring. A single panel with low production might indicate dirt, or bird poo, or something requiring attention. Seems useful to me.

Thanks for reading the core dump on my “Solar Quest”!