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  • J.P.M.
    Solar Fanatic
    • Aug 2013
    • 15051

    #16
    Originally posted by sensij
    Just to add to that,
    East 90° azimuth = 1274 kWh AC per year

    I'd guess east slightly outperforms west if all else is equal because the modules are somewhat cooler on average in the morning than they are in the afternoon.
    And east might do a bit better yet if possible morning clouds don't get in the way. How are the morning there Russ ?

    It may not be a good idea to make blanket statements and extrapolate about all situations from a few. That's part of the idea behind TMY's and the "SolarAnywhere" data. I'd suggest that it's probably a reasonable first approx. to expect best performance from "generally" equator facing arrays tilted at approx. the latitude of the location.

    I'd maybe add to that the idea that many areas have afternoon temps. higher than morning, penalizing westward oriented arrays more than eastward, and often morning fog/clouds penalizing eastward oriented arrays more than westward, and wind all over the place, while the overall largest penalty of off south (or off north in the southern hemisphere) arrays most all of the time, and in just about all locations is that of having less solar irradiance - the raw material that the array uses to make electricity - and thus less yearly production.

    Exceptions to those observations are common, but overall and for most locations, south is best for max. generation per installed Watt.

    As a practical matter, for and with T.O.U., time shifting of loads and lifestyle accommodations complicate the situation of minimizing an annual bill.

    However, the idea of gaming the T.O.U. rate structure to maximize revenue by optimizing the array orientation may well be mostly a matter of doing several runs with PVWatts, SAM, or other things, seeing how much revenue each orientation produces with the applicable rate structure and going with that orientation, while keeping in mind that all performance is an estimate, probably not better than +/- 10% or so, not supercritical by more than 10 deg. or so for azimuth and tilt, and subject to changing rates and T.O.U. time schemes as POCO's adjust the way the game is run.

    Once the orientation is optimized for max. revenue, the time and lifestyle shifting can then be used on the other end to minimize the use and minimize the rate paid per kWh.

    Comment

    • russ
      Solar Fanatic
      • Jul 2009
      • 10360

      #17
      Originally posted by J.P.M.
      And east might do a bit better yet if possible morning clouds don't get in the way. How are the morning there Russ ?
      No morning cloud problems - for that Mike is the one with a big nuisance. Of course I haven't lived there since the 60's.
      [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

      Comment

      • SunEagle
        Super Moderator
        • Oct 2012
        • 15192

        #18
        Originally posted by J.P.M.
        And east might do a bit better yet if possible morning clouds don't get in the way. How are the morning there Russ ?

        It may not be a good idea to make blanket statements and extrapolate about all situations from a few. That's part of the idea behind TMY's and the "SolarAnywhere" data. I'd suggest that it's probably a reasonable first approx. to expect best performance from "generally" equator facing arrays tilted at approx. the latitude of the location.

        I'd maybe add to that the idea that many areas have afternoon temps. higher than morning, penalizing westward oriented arrays more than eastward, and often morning fog/clouds penalizing eastward oriented arrays more than westward, and wind all over the place, while the overall largest penalty of off south (or off north in the southern hemisphere) arrays most all of the time, and in just about all locations is that of having less solar irradiance - the raw material that the array uses to make electricity - and thus less yearly production.

        Exceptions to those observations are common, but overall and for most locations, south is best for max. generation per installed Watt.

        As a practical matter, for and with T.O.U., time shifting of loads and lifestyle accommodations complicate the situation of minimizing an annual bill.

        However, the idea of gaming the T.O.U. rate structure to maximize revenue by optimizing the array orientation may well be mostly a matter of doing several runs with PVWatts, SAM, or other things, seeing how much revenue each orientation produces with the applicable rate structure and going with that orientation, while keeping in mind that all performance is an estimate, probably not better than +/- 10% or so, not supercritical by more than 10 deg. or so for azimuth and tilt, and subject to changing rates and T.O.U. time schemes as POCO's adjust the way the game is run.

        Once the orientation is optimized for max. revenue, the time and lifestyle shifting can then be used on the other end to minimize the use and minimize the rate paid per kWh.
        Maybe it's time to revisit the idea of a simple "tracking" system. It may not be economical now but if the T.O.U. changes enough there might be a break point where it all balances out.

        Comment

        • J.P.M.
          Solar Fanatic
          • Aug 2013
          • 15051

          #19
          Originally posted by SunEagle
          Maybe it's time to revisit the idea of a simple "tracking" system. It may not be economical now but if the T.O.U. changes enough there might be a break point where it all balances out.
          That's not a bet I'd take. Sort of like second guessing the future. At the end of the day most of the impetus for T.O.U. comes from the POCO's attempts to reduce/manage peak loads. It has little to do with saving users money except as the POCO can use the perception of saving to the user as a carrot to accomplish that goal. Users can game the system some but in the end the POCO is still driving the bus. The users who really come out ahead on the money end are those who reduce their usage. Those who reduce their usage the most reduce their bills the most.This is not rocket science.

          Comment

          • SunEagle
            Super Moderator
            • Oct 2012
            • 15192

            #20
            Originally posted by J.P.M.
            That's not a bet I'd take. Sort of like second guessing the future. At the end of the day most of the impetus for T.O.U. comes from the POCO's attempts to reduce/manage peak loads. It has little to do with saving users money except as the POCO can use the perception of saving to the user as a carrot to accomplish that goal. Users can game the system some but in the end the POCO is still driving the bus. The users who really come out ahead on the money end are those who reduce their usage. Those who reduce their usage the most reduce their bills the most.This is not rocket science.
            I agree. Conservation is the first and best way to save.

            Comment

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