New 4.8KW installation in San Diego just finished

[thejq]

I have learned a lot from this tread. We are getting bids for a 4.8KW system and not even close to the pricing you guys got. Can you please PM me the installer you used.

Thank

Welcome to the forum. You're looking for the same size of system as mine. Check your PM. Good luck!

[paris401]

what's interesting is how many guys in god's country (so calif) have solar... we were in sandiego in jan visiting family.. when I brought up solar to my niece (she has a killer southern expose), she said her elect cost was wee bit over 100 per month... 3 bedroom/2bath home... at 100bucks, doesn't pay to install solar... so she said...

[J.P.M.]

what's interesting is how many guys in god's country (so calif) have solar... we were in sandiego in jan visiting family.. when I brought up solar to my niece (she has a killer southern expose), she said her elect cost was wee bit over 100 per month... 3 bedroom/2bath home... at 100bucks, doesn't pay to install solar... so she said...

And she's probably correct. At about 6,000 - 7,000 kWh/yr. solar is not cost effective for her. She has low bills due to lifestyle. The goal is low bills, not solar for its own sake.

[sensij]

And she's probably correct. At about 6,000 - 7,000 kWh/yr. solar is not cost effective for her. She has low bills due to lifestyle. The goal is low bills, not solar for its own sake.

That is not certain to be true. I use about 4000 kWh annually (monthly bill of ~$60-70), and I've carefully looked at projections to make sure my installation will be cost effective. It required several months of shopping to get the price to a level that worked, approaching $3 / W. If she were to target a 3 kW system, I think a cost-effective installation is out there if she can find it.

Edit: To be clear... I am, to some extent, counting on the rate reform coming through that will be raising Tier 1 prices. Also, I expect to be adding an EV in the near future, which should increase my usage from 4000 kWh to over 7000 kWh. TOU plans will help my system cover the additional load, but I'm still hoping to leave about $10 / mo that is not offset, and will hope that the final version of rate reform has a minimum monthly charge, not a fixed charge.

[thejq]

151469 Also, I expect to be adding an EV in the near future, which should increase my usage from 4000 kWh to over 7000 kWh. TOU plans will help my system cover the additional load.

With the current EV-TOU2 structure, if used intelligently to optimize for the 3x factor, you might find yourself driving the EV for free (not including the cost of the car of course).

[J.P.M.]

That is not certain to be true. I use about 4000 kWh annually (monthly bill of ~$60-70), and I've carefully looked at projections to make sure my installation will be cost effective. It required several months of shopping to get the price to a level that worked, approaching $3 / W. If she were to target a 3 kW system, I think a cost-effective installation is out there if she can find it.

Edit: To be clear... I am, to some extent, counting on the rate reform coming through that will be raising Tier 1 prices. Also, I expect to be adding an EV in the near future, which should increase my usage from 4000 kWh to over 7000 kWh. TOU plans will help my system cover the additional load, but I'm still hoping to leave about $10 / mo that is not offset, and will hope that the final version of rate reform has a minimum monthly charge, not a fixed charge.

Opinions vary and it may be close, but not a lock based on assumptions, etc.

A hypothetical sit. using my monthly usage of 6,530 kWh/yr. ave. over 7 years.

Assumptions:

System size: 2.4 kW, tilt, 20 deg., az. 6 deg., annual output: ~ 3960 kW/yr.
Cost: $8,400 less 30% = $5,880.

Using TMY3, Miramar, slightly adjusted for my location.

This is optimum size based on least ave. cost/kWh paid to POCO on post solar bill using current tiered rates, inland, all electric., using my monthly usage. (~$0.176/kWh on 2,570 kWh billable)

Solar fraction: ~ 60%. Bill offset: ~ 67%
Pre solar bill: ~ $1,360/yr. Post solar bill: ~ $452.
Annual savings: ~ $908/yr .

Present worth factor: ~ 6.0. 12 yr. time frame, energy inflation ~ 3.1%/yr.

A longer time frame, diff. system costs, future prices, etc. etc., not to mention rate reform, will change things, probably quite a bit, but that's unknown at this time. The future is perhaps clearer now than a year ago, but flexible thinking is still needed. I started here, but I'd not be locked in.

Maybe I would have been better off saying a low bill may be cause to think more carefully about solar than a higher bill.

FWIW: Est. annual system revenue using current DR-SES tariff is ~ $1,102/yr. So, depending on how much one time shifts, it might work out to use some T.O.U. schedule.

[makarowski]

FWIW, I've yet to learn any confirmed failure with SolarEdge optimizers due to defect.

I'll confirm one SolarEdge optimizer defect on a P400 ... failed on day 2, so infant mortality... bummer.. but at least only one panel was down...

you can see my site here: the last optimizer on one string went out...

https://monitoring.solaredge.com/solaredge-web/p/public?name=La%20Costa%20Oaks%20-%20Sitio%20Corazon#/dashboard

failure confirmed with solaredge and a replacement on the way ... should get fixed next week..

BMak

[sensij]

I'll confirm one SolarEdge optimizer defect on a P400 ... failed on day 2, so infant mortality... bummer.. but at least only one panel was down...

you can see my site here: the last optimizer on one string went out...

https://monitoring.solaredge.com/solaredge-web/p/public?name=La%20Costa%20Oaks%20-%20Sitio%20Corazon#/dashboard

failure confirmed with solaredge and a replacement on the way ... should get fixed next week..

BMak

Interesting. You are already the top performing system in Team San Diego on a kWh / kW basis... I suspect that the optimizer is still contributing power, but just not reporting it.

Edit: If that optimizer was really dead, it would mean the rest of your system was producing at 0.94 kWp / kW, with no other Team San Diego system exceeding 0.85. Not likely.

[thejq]

I'll confirm one SolarEdge optimizer defect on a P400 ... failed on day 2, so infant mortality... bummer.. but at least only one panel was down...

you can see my site here: the last optimizer on one string went out...

https://monitoring.solaredge.com/solaredge-web/p/public?name=La%20Costa%20Oaks%20-%20Sitio%20Corazon#/dashboard

failure confirmed with solaredge and a replacement on the way ... should get fixed next week..

BMak

Interesting, it's the last one on that string. I guess you're lucky (being the first) .

[makarowski]

Yes it does look like the optimizer could be contributing... especially when you look at the average power / panel on each string.
the two strings are on different roof elevations, but same orientation/az

but even with that one panel contributing.. its only one out of 24 panels... maybe it is throwing off some of the calculations/reporting.. I have seen some wierd numbers / differences between SE and the SDGE meter...

Also, if solaredge is really supposed to "control" the optimizers, why would the optimizer turn on without being told (system was reset a few times)? I thought they only turned on and put out about a volt until instructed by the central inverter... not a robust design for fault tolerance...unless I am misunderstand.

I wish I had more time to dig into, but too much travel going on for me...

Cheers
BMak

[sensij]

Interesting, it's the last one on that string. I guess you're lucky (being the first) .

It is not clear. There is a panel numbered 1.2.13 in the middle of the other row, and 1.2.12 is the one not reporting. I wonder if the installer mislabeled them? The 1.1.X string only has 11 panels.

[sensij]

Yes it does look like the optimizer could be contributing... especially when you look at the average power / panel on each string.
the two strings are on different roof elevations, but same orientation/az

but even with that one panel contributing.. its only one out of 24 panels... maybe it is throwing off some of the calculations/reporting.. I have seen some wierd numbers / differences between SE and the SDGE meter...

Also, if solaredge is really supposed to "control" the optimizers, why would the optimizer turn on without being told (system was reset a few times)? I thought they only turned on and put out about a volt until instructed by the central inverter... not a robust design for fault tolerance...unless I am misunderstand.

I wish I had more time to dig into, but too much travel going on for me...

Cheers
BMak

I think the control communication protocol is different than the reporting protocol. It looks like only the reporting functionality is what went out.

SE reporting vs SDG&E reporting, SDG&E wins every time. SE reporting has some inaccuracies, apparently by design, since every one of our systems overreports energy by the same percent on a clear day. On a cloudy day, forget it... SE doesn't monitor quickly enough to prevent sampling error from creeping in.

[makarowski]

if you look at the front panel of the inverter, it can't even see the optimizer (only 23/23 showing on the display, should be 24 up on my roof)...

so if it can't even talk to the optimizer (guessing only one physical channel to some uP on the optimizer), then not sure why one logical link would work and not the other...

[thejq]

if you look at the front panel of the inverter, it can't even see the optimizer (only 23/23 showing on the display, should be 24 up on my roof)...

so if it can't even talk to the optimizer (guessing only one physical channel to some uP on the optimizer), then not sure why one logical link would work and not the other...

So it could be a connection problem, since SE doesn't even see your optimizer? Did it work at the very beginning? Did you climb up the roof and check how the connections are made. I remember reading HX_guy's thread that his installer used a pliers instead of proper clamping tools. The wires could be pull out by hand. Not saying your installer did the same, but if there's a problem, it's better to be thorough.

I thought you had 12 and 12 strings, but apparently it's 11 and 13, maybe it's mislabeled as sensij said?

[makarowski]

I didn't get on the roof.. and yes 11+13 in my array. The bad optimizer is on my upper roof... don't feel like going up there. The install looked pretty good on the lower roof and the optimizer worked for about 2 days before it crapped out.

So possible a bad connection, but when the tech came today and checked it out with SolarEdge (I was on a conf call at the time and couldn't watch), they confirmed a bad optimizer and ordered a new one...

BMak