Finally signed the deal here in the SF Bay area

[SunEagle]

Not an attorney but have a legal plan through work for defense, advice and stuff, but the only thing they prosecute on is product defect/liability. But I had a contractor that messed up, didn't show for work and filed a complaint with the state contractor license board and he actually lost his contractor's license. I work with contractors all the time being on two HOA boards and having several properties myself, so I'm pretty good at getting what I expect. This country's infrastructure and maintenance is built on "low bid". We sent a man to the moon and back on "low bid".

I agree that a vast majority of projects are done by the "low bidders". I have over 35 years of capital project management experience in the industrial facility area and I can tell you that while the "low bid" gets in you sometimes have to watch them like a hawk to make sure you are getting what you want. Sometimes the installation details are fuzzy and a Contractor will provide you with an "acceptable" piece of equipment although not what you really asked for. The key is to get clarity on the project before something gets installed. Getting it replaced usually pushes out the completion date so you have to decide to either to be late or use something that you really did not want in the first place.

It just takes some due diligence by the Project manager or the people that work for him to have a clear idea of what is being installed throughout the job and to have contingency plans when (as it always does) something goes wrong.

[buellwinkle]

Not an attorney but have a legal plan through work for defense, advice and stuff, but the only thing they prosecute on is product defect/liability. But I had a contractor that messed up, didn't show for work and filed a complaint with the state contractor license board and he actually lost his contractor's license. I work with contractors all the time being on two HOA boards and having several properties myself, so I'm pretty good at getting what I expect. This country's infrastructure and maintenance is built on "low bid". We sent a man to the moon and back on "low bid".

[Tee2]

I got it, thanks a lot!

[Bikerscum]

Would you mind PMing me your installer's info?

PM sent, but with only 1 post I don't know if you can read it.

[Tee2]

Would you mind PMing me your installer's info?

Thanks to all for steering me through the maze!

I ended up with...

6.05 kw - 22 Solarworld 275 mono black panels
22 Solaredge P300 optimizers
Solaredge 6k inverter

$3.55/w = $21,478 before credit
$2.48/w = $15,034 after credit

The company is well established, with an actual showroom with panels on display, mounting systems, etc. 44 all positive reviews on Yelp, "A" rating from BBB.

I feel a lot more comfortable than with some of the other places I've been dealing with.

Thanks again!

Now the waiting...

[SunEagle]

You don't know the game - a good salesman will and he could take you to the cleaners. Going for bottom dollar is a good way to get royally screwed.

Messing with the wrong guy sounds silly.

I agree with you russ. Going with the lowest bid can sometimes get you into a p***ing match with what they provide and what you think they should provide.

As for "messing with the wrong guy", maybe he is an Attorney and can bring legal action down on someone.

[russ]

I don't think so. The trick is to make sure the bid specifies each major component like the inverters, panels, racks and such. My local city inspectors are very detailed, even down to finding the wrong Amp used, the wrong gauge wire, placement of components. And regardless of what I pay, I'll be on my roof, taking pictures before and after to make sure they don't break tiles and replace damaged tiles, that they are neat about how they run wires in my attic, that they electrical components are mounted professionally. If they bait-n-switch, they are messing with the wrong guy in my case.

You don't know the game - a good salesman will and he could take you to the cleaners. Going for bottom dollar is a good way to get royally screwed.

Messing with the wrong guy sounds silly.

[buellwinkle]

I don't think so. The trick is to make sure the bid specifies each major component like the inverters, panels, racks and such. My local city inspectors are very detailed, even down to finding the wrong Amp used, the wrong gauge wire, placement of components. And regardless of what I pay, I'll be on my roof, taking pictures before and after to make sure they don't break tiles and replace damaged tiles, that they are neat about how they run wires in my attic, that they electrical components are mounted professionally. If they bait-n-switch, they are messing with the wrong guy in my case.

[J.P.M.]

I don't agree, I think it's best to get the very lowest bid you can, then use that as leverage to get a better deal from the vendor of your choice. Many times you are paying for the overhead of their aggressive marketing and commissions rather than an honest install. Never equate price with quality.

I'd agree with some of that on a casual basis. However, having been on both sides of the table, I've come to the further opinion that if squeezed too hard on price or particulars, a vendor will find ways to maximize/salvage their profit in ways that customers will never know or suspect. That's part of the logic behind the statement that it's bad to pay too much, but worse to pay too little.

Unless your prepared to be a real PITA, hand's on, project manager, that price hammer can easily become an impetus for corner cutting. Fair, hard negotiating is one thing. It may be wise to think about and realize when the squeezing may perhaps become counterproductive.

It's also been my experience that Dutch auction type of logic with vendors does not get the lowest price. If vendors know where they need to be because you told them, they'll go $.01 under that bid, because that's all they need to go. They'll go lower than that if they can or choose to and don't know where they need to be.

[buellwinkle]

I don't agree, I think it's best to get the very lowest bid you can, then use that as leverage to get a better deal from the vendor of your choice. Many times you are paying for the overhead of their aggressive marketing and commissions rather than an honest install. Never equate price with quality.

[J.P.M.]

The best "deal" doesn't mean it's the least expensive....

Pretty much exactly and precisely.

[Bikerscum]

PM sent.

[csriram45]

Pls share details of the installer

I am in SF Bay area. While I have few quotes, would like to get to know who you installed with etc. Can you please PM me the info?

[Whyamihere]

I'd add to that:

I'd suggest that before considering solar, understand that solar electricity is almost always the least cost effective way to reduce an electric bill. Learn and consider ways to reduce your usage as much as possible with the more cost effective methods first (in some loose order of cost effectiveness: lifestyle changes, conservation, other equipment upgrades).

After that:

1.) Don't put the cart before the horse. Do your homework before you get quotes.
- Start by figuring out how much electricity you use, how much of your annual load offset with solar is the most cost effective, and then decide how much of your annual load you want to replace, which may or may not be the most cost effective choice.
- As an opinion - Knowing the most cost effective choice(s) in no way prohibits you from other, equally valid (as you see your priorities), but less cost effective choices, but it does no harm to have more information as input to the decision making process.
- Understand the basics of solar electric before you call vendors. Also, as Tyler writes, and as a bonus, you'll cut through the B.S. quicker.

2.) As much as you are able, try to know the answers to your questions before you ask them of the vendors. Ask vendors questions not to obtain answers, but to gauge, among other things, their knowledgeability and honesty. Be proactive with questions, not reactive to vendor spun answers couched to close a sale. You're the buyer, put yourself in the driver's seat.

3.) Low price is good, but a fair, competitive price from a reputable, established vendor is, IMO, better, and is cheap insurance. This is one of the last places to cheap out, but unfortunately, often one of the hardest to judge.

The best "deal" doesn't mean it's the least expensive....

[J.P.M.]

The first quote or two are the worst as your knowledge base is limited and there is usually a presentation to go along with them as well. At this point you should be more knowledgeable and or know what questions you want to ask. To save yourself time, write down the questions you want to know and the specifics you want. When calling have a check list and go through it. They will realize you know more than the average person and usually cut through the BS rather quickly. I got 8 quotes and by the end it was a short conversation and told them what they needed to beat to get my business.

I'd add to that:

I'd suggest that before considering solar, understand that solar electricity is almost always the least cost effective way to reduce an electric bill. Learn and consider ways to reduce your usage as much as possible with the more cost effective methods first (in some loose order of cost effectiveness: lifestyle changes, conservation, other equipment upgrades).

After that:

1.) Don't put the cart before the horse. Do your homework before you get quotes.
- Start by figuring out how much electricity you use, how much of your annual load offset with solar is the most cost effective, and then decide how much of your annual load you want to replace, which may or may not be the most cost effective choice.
- As an opinion - Knowing the most cost effective choice(s) in no way prohibits you from other, equally valid (as you see your priorities), but less cost effective choices, but it does no harm to have more information as input to the decision making process.
- Understand the basics of solar electric before you call vendors. Also, as Tyler writes, and as a bonus, you'll cut through the B.S. quicker.

2.) As much as you are able, try to know the answers to your questions before you ask them of the vendors. Ask vendors questions not to obtain answers, but to gauge, among other things, their knowledgeability and honesty. Be proactive with questions, not reactive to vendor spun answers couched to close a sale. You're the buyer, put yourself in the driver's seat.

3.) Low price is good, but a fair, competitive price from a reputable, established vendor is, IMO, better, and is cheap insurance. This is one of the last places to cheap out, but unfortunately, often one of the hardest to judge.