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So part of my job at the company I currently work for is to do shade analysis and design the layout of arrays to maximize production for the customer. In other words, part of my job is conducting site surveys. Recently, on my way home from work I noticed an array that one of my nieghbors had installed that was facing at about a 345-355 degree azimuth. I could tell from looking that the roof pitch was about a 5/12. They had 31 panels and since i could not spot an inverter im assuming there were either micros or power optimizers of some sort utilized. From what I have experienced at this point in the solar field, as much as solar has come down in the last few year, it is still not practical to put panels flush with a rooftop facing between 290-85 degrees. The return on investment is just not there yet. Please share your opinions. Also, what would you do if this was your neighbor. I come across a lot of ppl who do not understand solar and it seems like many companies are taking advantage of this. As a NABCEP Certified instillation profesional and an individual passionate about his carreer, this makes me very upset.
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Since you ask for opinion(s), take what you want, leave the rest:
1.) Given your stated credentials, you know the technical answers to your own comments, or know where to find information (I hope).
2.) ROI threshold is a matter of choice and up to the owner - not you, me, or anyone else.
3.) IMO, #2 above is really sad in a way because, in my experience, most, but not all owners are solar ignorant sheeple who are buying on emotion and crowd mentality. They know little to nothing about making sound financial choices. Still, its a free country. Their money/life /choice/opinion. Everyone is free to make ignorant choices as much as intelligent ones. And, opinions are like "noses" - most folks have one, and like noses - most of them smell and some are downright ugly.
Mine too.
4.) As for your question about what to do with neighbors, I think I may have a valid comment. I review residents' proposed solar work for my HOA and recommend approval/changes as I see my fiduciary responsibility in that area. These folks are my neighbors. More than a few are friends. About six yrs. into this HOA thing, about 60+ installs, many consults/conversations and several pieces in the local newsletter, the level of ignorance hasn't improved. Folks most usually have their mind made up before they start, do some of the dumbest things imaginable, and mostly get very upset when the folly of their intended actions is pointed out, even when pointed out in a socratic fashion. Of those 60+ installs, from what I know of them, I'd be very surprised if any of them (except one done by a solar contractor on his own residence) is cost effective by any reasonable set of criteria, or especially when compared to other measures involving conservation or life style changes.
Solar is usually the least cost effective way to reduce an electric bill, but, against a lot of sound logic and common sense, also usually the first thing done - treating the symptom (a large electric bill) and not the disease (profligate energy use). Sort of like a morbidly obese person buying food stamps to reduce their food bill because they're told the stamps cost less than the food they buy. So they buy the stamps and eat the same or more for the same or slightly lower food bill. Same w/ solar electric - except in this case, the long term cost of the solar electricity (food stamps) is more than the long term cost of the POCO supplied electricity (food).
5.) Your observations about unscrupulous companies are shared by many. However, such outfits are not the biggest part of the problem. That distinction may belong to the solar customers whose self inflicted, mentally slothful ignorance puts them in a position to be screwed over. Your example is probably a result of such ignorance. Such insanity is evident everywhere I look. You want a villain - look in the mirror. I do. If the vendors are the hammers, it's the customer's arms swinging it against their (the customer's) own heads.
6.) Save your sanity. Get used to the ignorance, find some way to make peace with it, or find another line of work.
Welcome to the neighborhood. -
You have answer to yourself already. There is nothing to be upset. I believe your neighbor and the installer both knew the result of North facing array produce less energy. For example, My neighbor install majority of his panel on NE 70 to 75 degree. Why? He and his wife both did not want the solar panels to be seen from the street. All he did is install 7 more panels to make up the difference. I told him I will sign the HOA paper and allow him to install in the roof facing the street, but he said NO. I'll probably do the same.Comment
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Nobody realizes when they vote for the "Board" of their HOA, that these folks are likely the bottom of the barrel. They for sure are not out working 8-12 hours daily. They sit behind their approved beige window treatments, and take notes all day, of what they don't like. Most of it has no relevance to property value. Can't this. Must that. Even if state law superceedes the HOA rules, you still have to battle the fools and spend your $, while they defend themselves with - (wait for it) - your money ! (HOA dues). Sometimes, 7 more panels is the easy route, and save the battle for something really important, like parking your car in the parking strip.......
(Apologies to those few, stand-up hard workers that do serve on HOA's)Powerfab top of pole PV mount (2) | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
|| Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
|| VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A
solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-ListerComment
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I see behavior of the type you describe quite often. I, and my libertarian inclinations and sensibilities certainly do not defend them. Saner thinkers hold most of it in check behind the scenes. My observation is that some folks on HOA Boards are stuck in a parental power trip. Some. Some of the rest are bored all day while their spouses work. A lot of the rest are retired, and after working 8-12 hrs. most of their working lives, now have spare time and use some of it to get out of the cart and push some. In my experience, most members of HOA Boards are not closet nazis and would rather not rock the boat, if only out of laziness. So I guess part of the difference in the way we see these issues is what percentage of Board servers are stand up and how many are butt holes. I've seen more stand up than National Socialism.
Before closing escrow, folks who buy property in an HOA are, by CA law anyway, given a set of By-Laws, CC& R's and other governing documents. If they do not like the conditions, they are not forced to buy. No one has a gun to their head. Why did they buy in the first place ? Caveat Emptor.
No one likes imposed restrictions that they feel do not apply to them - incorrectly or not. Most everyone likes restrictions that are felt to improve property values and quality of life - but what they feel restricts them affects neither of those things, good or bad, of course. Restrictions on raising livestock on 1/4 acre lots, junk cars in front yards, playgrounds that amount to amusement parks, and 8 ft. high solid fences around a front yard come to mind as actual examples.
I've observed, perhaps incorrectly, that most of the time, those who feel the most restricted by HOA's seem the least informed about what they signed on to HOA-wise, and are the most reluctant to get involved or work out a solution, often leaving Boards little choice.
There's usually two sides to a story. Reasonable people can usually get to workable, tolerable solutions. Failing that, there is always binding arbitration. Beyond that, there's adjudication through the court system with the loser picking up the tab.
Being on a Board is another reason why the more I deal with people, the more I like dogs, but I think the solar energy systems around here may be more numerous, and may be just a bit better designed as a result of my efforts at education and sane compromise on all sides, including some Board servers who think solar energy is a left wing plot.
Still not as cost effective as conservation however.Comment
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I fully agree with J.P.M.
A standard practice is to sign and whine - sign without knowing and then whine when restrictions don't suit you.
If one does not like the restrictions of a HOA then why by into it?[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]Comment
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I never said anything about he is wrong about HOA.
I do appreciate people who spent time to take the responsibility of HOA board. If any of mine HOA board members think it is easier to deal with dogs than people, I'll vote him out for sure. HOA is to serves the community not dictate. HOA isn't a fulfillment of retirement.Comment
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