Multiple bids ready to pull the trigger

[jusmom154]

???

[HX_Guy]

Wow that seems VERY high, about 2X the price of what it would be here in AZ but I'm not familiar with California prices.

[HX_Guy]

See if you can compare the quote to an Enphase system instead of Solaredge. The SolarEdge should actually be cheaper than Enphase I believe since the parts are less expensive (even though you need optimizers and an central inverter, parts are still less than Enphase micro-inverters and their specialized cabling).

[HX_Guy]

Oh I have no problem with SolarEdge, I actually really like them and will be using them on my system. I was just saying for price comparison purposes, your quote should be less than what an Enphase system would cost.

[J.P.M.]

I have had three bids for my system one from solar city and two from sunpower dealers. I was really impressed with one sunpower dealer and here is what I have been quoted with equipment. First off I have decided to go with sunpower because I have minimal roof space because my roof is broken up really bad. I reside in the central valley in California. I was told because of my broken roof that I would need solaredge and I also could have partial shading because of trees that are not fully matured yet. This dealer has told me they are not the cheapest but have been the most upfront and honest. They are scheduled to come out and get reading from my roof to see if anymore panels can fit. The system below is what they have proposed prior to the inspection. The dealer said they where only going to quote me what they new could work on the roof prior to inspection. I had two other quotes and one dealer did not even bother checking my roof and quoted me 27 panels (impossible amount to fit) and another said their system would produce much more power than even possible. I have spend a lot of time researching this forum and learned a lot (great community). Thanks in advance for any feedback.

My current annual usage 16,360 KW
DC size 5.2KW
AC size 4.7KW
KW offset 41.51%

16 sunpower SPE-E20-327 modules
1 solaredge SE6000A-US inverter
16 solaredge power optimizers P400

The quoted prices was $32,344 before rebates (32,344/5232=6.18 per watt) I told them this price seems high compared to CSI database. If this is high what would be an appropriate from experience (5.65?).
Price after federal rebate $22,641 (22,641/5232=4.33 per watt)
The prices are for purchasing the system/not a lease or PPA

Unless there's more to the story, those prices are just too high in comparison with other Sunpower systems. The vendor was probably indeed being honest at least when stating they were not the cheapest. I got 16 -327's less than a year ago for $4.50/Watt before rebate, but w/out optimizers. ( ref.: SD - CSI - 17646). Even w/optimizers, $6.18/Watt ?

[HX_Guy]

The optimizers are $71/ea and the inverter is actually less than a standard string inverter, but lets call that part even and just look at the optimizers. 16 of them would be $1136 and install is really the same except for attaching the optimizers to the railing. I think a realistic price should be around $25,000 total or $4.77/watt with SolarEdge.

[DanS26]

I have decided to stick with solaredge because of their parts warranties which are very good. I have a slate tile roof and I may need the warranty because of the heat in the central valley of California.

If you are basing your decision on warranties.......just be aware that in the solar industry warranties do not have a good track record.

[J.P.M.]

I ran the installs in California for 1/01/13-6/23/14 and found 221 systems using 16 SPR-E20-327 panels. All of the systems used comparable inverters either being sunpower, powerone, or soleredge. The average of all the systems was $5.27/Watt which is $.91/Watt cheaper than I was quoted. That makes a difference of $4,761.12 from the average to what I was quoted. I sent the salesman an email with the CAI information explaining what I had found. I will have to wait for the quote from the other dealer and see what this dealers response is from my email.

You can do better than the average. SD - CSI - 17646 == $4.50/Watt. It's a free country, but more than that + optimizers & you're leaving $$ on the table. That other price is unrealistic.

[HX_Guy]

Did they include the actual optimizers in the quote as well, I didn't see it listed.

There's nothing wrong with the 245 panels but you will need a lot more, which you said you can't fit. It will also take a lot more optimizers so I'm a little surprised at their price.

And if you are now considering 245W panels, then you can find a lot of other options that will be less expensive but still good from other manufacturers. The big advantage that SunPower has is that they have high wattage panels (327w, 345w) in the same size as other manufacturers 250w or 275w panels.

[HX_Guy]

I guess we'll have to take his word for it...your roof must have a lot of small areas all spread out for that to work out better because while the 245W panels are smaller, they aren't that much smaller 31.41" x 61.38" vs 41.18" x 61.38". But since they are quoting you 27 panels, that's a total of 361.53 sq ft of panels vs 280.8 sq ft with the 327W panels...so the smaller panels are actually taking up quite a bit more overall space.

Also, the original setup was 5.23kW while the new one is 6.62kW, or 26% bigger. Do you need a 6.62kW system or was the original size sufficient?

[easye]

I can't figure how a 6.6kw system gets you to 12000kwh per year?

[HX_Guy]

I can't figure how a 6.6kw system gets you to 12000kwh per year?

Yeah that can't be right, especially since in the first post OP said the 5.2kW system would offset 41.51% of their usage...meaning the 6.6kW system should offset about 52.30% of their usage, not 75%.

[easye]

Yeah that can't be right, especially since in the first post OP said the 5.2kW system would offset 41.51% of their usage...meaning the 6.6kW system should offset about 52.30% of their usage, not 75%.

I'm sure he is quoting what the installer told him or made a mistake. Either way I'm thinking roof mount he'd be lucky to get 9000kwh with the config he is talking about (lots of angles and shading) but 8500kwh seems reasonable. If the installer said 12k then I would question what else he is saying.

[easye]

Sorry for the confusion. The 6.6 watt system offsets my current power bill by 75% because I was at times up to tier 5 in California which is a ridiculous amount. I believe the offset is roughly 62% total kwh. 16006 kwh annually÷9908 kwh produced=.62

ah. those kooky CA rate tiers. I still think 10K is optimistic on a 6.6 with shading and arrays at several different angles.

[J.P.M.]

I was wondering how you came to this figure and is this a formula SD-CSI-17646? What fields did you pull these values from in the CSI database. Sorry for asking this information you provided was eye opening so I wanted to make sure I understood it.


You can do better than the average. SD - CSI - 17646 == $4.50/Watt

I apologize for assuming familiarity with the CSI database numbering system.

That's the CSI # for a job I know well - it's mine. I only cite that as an example of the possible. IMO, most, but not all of the difference between that $5.27 average price you found and my price is due to ignorance.

16 panels X 327 Watts/panel = 5,232 Watts.

$23544/5,232 Watts = $4.50/Watt before rebates and tax credits.

The CSI rebate was $912.00

The Fed. tax credit was $6,789.60.

Go to the CSI database and sort by CSI #. All the gory details except Fed. tax credit are there. I have a string inverter and no optimizers, but $4.50/Watt is what I paid to the vendor 10 months ago in a price dropping climate. With the exception of a couple of what I suspect are vendor self purchased jobs, at the time mine was about the lowest price paid for such a system. Prices have since dropped a bit more. I've seen $4.35/Watt recently.

I realize not all systems and situations are equal, and while $4.50 may be a bit low for the system your thinking about, $6.16 is simply hard for me to believe.