Breaking a solar lease

[TheRealBobSacamono]

Sunrun has a dept solely to help you figure out the selling of your home. Use purchase option to buy it out. Add cost to home purchase. I've been a sunrun dealer for many years. Leases are great for a lot of people but definitely not for everyone. Pro reps that are truly pros should be able to make that decision. First off never choose an 2.9 escalator unless your in a reverse mortgage or very senior and don't care about the home after you pass. Otherwise ask for a zero escalator at 10 cents. If you need a panel upgrade you might have to go 11 cents. If they can't go that low than your dealing with a sales company and not the actual installer. Purchase a system if you can use the Fed tax credits. Sales companies sell double what an actual install company sells for. $3 per watt is fair for an installer. This is the only way for a customer to get a true Energy savings.

I'm curious, what market are you working in?

Also curious, how does the reverse mortgage and escalator factor into each other?

I'm in solar sales. It really helps knowing these little things.

[Ampster]

...... If no structural review exists on file, you may have a way to break your PPA or lease.

Would an approved building permit defeat that argument? Even if it didn't, all the installer would have to due to cure that default is get engineering docs. That would probably be cheaper than hiring a lawyer. BTW this is an old thread from 2017. I didn't read the entire thread to see if the issue was resolved.

[colorado.doug]

Check to see if the installers got the required sign-off/stamps from a structural engineer. Back in the day, solar contractors and their subs wouldn't always get these done according to code. If no structural review exists on file, you may have a way to break your PPA or lease.

[l008com]

Unfortunately for me, there is a transfer agreement

[cebury]

And yes there are two threads I can recall here with someone fighting the solar lease. I think both were purchased as is foreclosures from banks, no transfer agreements were signed. In both cases, the companies attempted to force the new owners onto the lease. They new owners held firm. Without the new owner sig, the company eventually, after a very retracted back and forth, removed the panels. At least one owner hoped for free electricity but both, if forced to chose, did not want a lease/PPA anyway. By the time it was over over, both didnt want anything to do with the company or leased panels anymore.

[DrLumen]

If there is a contract, they are not going to go to the expense of removing the equipment and fixing the roof only to tear it up. For five figures, there is going to be time spent in court with judgements, liens and/or garnishments - depending on state laws. vivint has likely done this enough that they have the lawsuits down to a very polished and, likely, bulletproof process. Even if vivint goes after the original owner, who is to say that the old owner won't drag you into court.

[cebury]

I know the original poster is long gone, but no one has actually answered part of his original question, which is if anyone has any first hand experience defaulting on a solar lease. This is my question as well. It doesn't make sense to me that they would sue you or garnish your wages. This is secured debt, they'd just "repo" the panels. Which is what most people who stop paying would want in the first place. I have a whole long thread on my situation but the short of it is i'm getting totally screwed by the panels that came on the house I bought 3 years ago, and no one involved at the time had any experience with solar leases (lawyer, agents, me etc) so no one knew it was a borderline-scam. I'm at the point now where I'm down to two options: pay ~$150 a month for electricity while only using about $30 a month worth of KWh, for the next 15 years. Or telling them they will not be receiving any money from me ever, and come get the panels. And this is why I also specifically want to know what happens if you default on a solar lease and allow/encourage the company to come remove the panels.

A mark on my credit doesn't really bother me in the lease. My credit is almost perfect, and I won't need to use it again for many years, and loosing a few points to potentially save me about $30,000 over the next 15 years, I'll take that deal.

I think you are mistaken to believe their contract rights only extend to remediation to remove panels, absent rights nor desire for collection on remaining balance due. Essentially: "dont honor the contract? We will come remove the system, fix your roof, all for free and just hit your credit report." Uh no. Someone may end up being very lucky if "they'd just repo the panels" if they defaulted on their signed contract with tens of thousands of dollars left on it. This is foolish to give people this kind of hope if they default on their huge contracts, it is an easy way to get the system uninstalled at the mere cost of "loosing [sic] a few points" on their credit.

When I suggested Vivint may just hit YOUR credit report and remove your panels, I made that hypothesis based on your statement they had not found a signrd contract, just faxed you a blank transfer agreement. In your case, if one isnt found, they may pressure the former owner for collection and remove the panels. Worst case, hit your credit, too as an attempt at bully negotiation or trying to settle some dollars from you to remove it or for no good reason because thats what they do.

Whether it makes sense to you or not, I would bet a company like Vivint chooses to pursue a judgement and collection based only on whether it nets financially (and to some extent how bad press may factor into that equation).

[max2k]

I know the original poster is long gone, but no one has actually answered part of his original question, which is if anyone has any first hand experience defaulting on a solar lease. This is my question as well. ...

If you have lease agreement then it most likely outlines the options you have. Many posters actually answered question about what happens- it's a contract and is treated as any other contract according to its terms. In the other thread you were saying you can't locate the agreement with your signature on it. If it doesn't exist and lessor can't find it either and there's no lien on your property from them then you're already lease free. If it exists then you need to see what's in it and take it from there.

[l008com]

I know the original poster is long gone, but no one has actually answered part of his original question, which is if anyone has any first hand experience defaulting on a solar lease. This is my question as well. It doesn't make sense to me that they would sue you or garnish your wages. This is secured debt, they'd just "repo" the panels. Which is what most people who stop paying would want in the first place. I have a whole long thread on my situation but the short of it is i'm getting totally screwed by the panels that came on the house I bought 3 years ago, and no one involved at the time had any experience with solar leases (lawyer, agents, me etc) so no one knew it was a borderline-scam. I'm at the point now where I'm down to two options: pay ~$150 a month for electricity while only using about $30 a month worth of KWh, for the next 15 years. Or telling them they will not be receiving any money from me ever, and come get the panels. And this is why I also specifically want to know what happens if you default on a solar lease and allow/encourage the company to come remove the panels.

A mark on my credit doesn't really bother me in the lease. My credit is almost perfect, and I won't need to use it again for many years, and loosing a few points to potentially save me about $30,000 over the next 15 years, I'll take that deal.

[J.P.M.]

Yup. Most people get loans for homes and if the bank appraisers say it adds no value then you're stuck. Neither the buyer or the bank are going to up the value just to be fair to the seller. I did a refi from a 30 to a 15 year loan to drop from 5% to 3%. The appraiser noted the solar panels but said their value was questionable so he would not assign any value. I complained but other appraisers agreed with him. My panels were 2 months old at the time, paid for in full and I have a grandfathered contract with the SRP that is transferable to any owner of my property for 20 years. Anyone could do the math and understand the $1300-$1500 savings per year. In the end it did not matter because I had enough equity so I didn't need to fight them further. My panels are all on the rear of the home on a single slope and most people never even know they are there. They are also HOA approved.

In spite of what some owner may be talked and B.S.'d into by a solar peddler, and then wishfully believe while looking through rose colored glasses, a thing is still only worth what someone is willing to pay.

I wouldn't buy a house with existing PV on it.

Even if I was the standard solar ignorant person, and if I had an ounce of brains, I'd inform all parties that I thought the PV to be a POS and a determent to the value of the property.

[Andygt02]

azdave, I bet they look great though!

[azdave]

Yup. Most people get loans for homes and if the bank appraisers say it adds no value then you're stuck. Neither the buyer or the bank are going to up the value just to be fair to the seller. I did a refi from a 30 to a 15 year loan to drop from 5% to 3%. The appraiser noted the solar panels but said their value was questionable so he would not assign any value. I complained but other appraisers agreed with him. My panels were 2 months old at the time, paid for in full and I have a grandfathered contract with the SRP that is transferable to any owner of my property for 20 years. Anyone could do the math and understand the $1300-$1500 savings per year. In the end it did not matter because I had enough equity so I didn't need to fight them further. My panels are all on the rear of the home on a single slope and most people never even know they are there. They are also HOA approved.

[Andygt02]

I can understand leased panels causing an issue. Owned though? It should increase the value unless the area has the old 'panels are ugly' vibe. My guess is a lot of real estate professionals don't know much about solar, so they just ignore it.

[azdave]

I see most people didn't notice this thread ended last March, that the OP is long gone after only one reply and that this thread was recently re-started by a new guy adding his comments long after the fact.

Solar adds a great deal of value to a house.

Not from what I've read here and also seen myself. Home appraisers around here assign grid-tie solar with zero value, even if it is owned and fully paid for.

Any smart buyer making an offer on a home with a solar lease in force immediately understands the financial opportunity they have in front of them to get the system for next to nothing. They will take full advantage of the seller's poor decision to sign a lease deal.

[SunEagle]

It's not as bad as it seems. Buy out the system and sell your house for market rate + whatever it cost you to buy the system (or more). Solar adds a great deal of value to a house.

A solar pv system does not always add value to your home. In some markets it can detract from the value. If it is a leased system that can make the home value even less.

You need to check with the local real estate people. In the eyes of the home owner, solar may not be a priority in a home purchase.