New Cal Fire setback requirement for roof mounted solar?

[ocdave]

I've hit an issue in the permitting process for my roof solar installation with the city of Irvine that I'm hoping someone out there can provide some advice on. The city has denied the permit because they require a 3' setback from the roof ridge per newly implemented Calfire solar installation restrictions (as of 1/1/2014). The panels are to be mounted on three different roof sections on one side of my house. There is plenty of other access space to get to the ridge from other roof slopes and the panels cover only ~30-% of my roof space. According to my research, the 3' setback guideline was not meant to be a hard requirement and local jurisdictions were supposed to have the ability to allow exceptions to this guideline where it makes sense to do so. I am hoping I can do that in this case. Anyone out there have any experience asking for an exception (preferably in Irvine) and can provide advice on how to go about the process? Thanks in advance for the input.

[Naptown]

How close will you be to the ridge

[Sunking]

You only need to know the two golden rules to pass permit and inspections.

1. Inspector is always right.
2. When inspector is wrong refer to rule 1

Follow those two rules and you will get along fine with the permit office and inspectors..

[ocdave]

How close will you be to the ridge

Current clearance is 18", 16" and 16" from the ridgelines

[OvertheSun]

I've hit an issue in the permitting process for my roof solar installation with the city of Irvine that I'm hoping someone out there can provide some advice on. The city has denied the permit because they require a 3' setback from the roof ridge per newly implemented Calfire solar installation restrictions (as of 1/1/2014). The panels are to be mounted on three different roof sections on one side of my house. There is plenty of other access space to get to the ridge from other roof slopes and the panels cover only ~30-% of my roof space. According to my research, the 3' setback guideline was not meant to be a hard requirement and local jurisdictions were supposed to have the ability to allow exceptions to this guideline where it makes sense to do so. I am hoping I can do that in this case. Anyone out there have any experience asking for an exception (preferably in Irvine) and can provide advice on how to go about the process? Thanks in advance for the input.

I think we kind of touched on this before. The CA code section that deals with this is
Title 24, Part 9, Chapter 6, Sec. 605.11. The setbacks specifically start at Sec. 605.11.3. This section provides and exception that states:

2. Panels/modules shall be permitted to he located up to the roof ridge where an alternative ventilation method approved by the fire chief has been provided or where the fire chief has determined vertical ventilation techniques will not be employed.

Your local building department probably can't help you - they are just implementing the code and may not have the authority to grant an exception, but there might be someone higher up than a clerk who could grant an exception. I think you have three (at least) options that are not mutually exclusive.

1. Contact the building permit dept. and find out what the appeal process is for a denied permit application.

2. Contact the local fire chief and ask for an evaluation of your proposed PV system, explaining your situation and the fact that only 30% of your roof would be covered by the PV system and there would be alternative access routes and ventillation areas and ask for a letter stating that s/he approves an alternative ventilation method (i.e., access from route on a roof slope other than the one you intend to put panes on). If s/he agrees, then you should be able to point to the above provision of CA code to get your permit.

3. Contact the State Fire Marshall and ask for a code interpretation. http://osfm.fire.ca.gov/codeinterpre...rpretation.php
This option carries the risk that State Fire Marshal does not give a favorable interpretation, then 1 and 2 would not be able to overcome her decision. Then the only recourse would be to have the code changed, which is possible, but longer term and more political.

I would check out #1 first and then #2, saving #3 for the last resort.

# 3 is something I've been considering doing myself, but I have been massively busy at work. I'm going to PM you. Maybe we could work together on this.

[Naptown]

You only need to know the two golden rules to pass permit and inspections.

1. Inspector is always right.
2. When inspector is wrong refer to rule 1

Follow those two rules and you will get along fine with the permit office and inspectors..

About to enter into a P***ing match with the local city next week. They have been enforcing the NFPA1-2012 which this all stems from.
They have adopted this code and reference it but in the city code they adopted and promulgate the code as adopted by the state of Maryland.
The state specifically excludes one and two family dwellings.

[Sunking]

About to enter into a P***ing match with the local city next week. They have been enforcing the NFPA1-2012 which this all stems from.
They have adopted this code and reference it but in the city code they adopted and promulgate the code as adopted by the state of Maryland.
The state specifically excludes one and two family dwellings.

Good Luck my friend.

Which is less expensive?

1. Fight and win, which is a gamble?
2. Comply and take your loss?

[MGE]

Sorry to hear about your bad news. I caught wind of this at the end of last year and put up a thread for info so people here in (San Diego) should get their permit process started before Jan 1st as to the oncoming changes for rooftop installs. It's modified for the fire dept so they can get access to rooftop areas in cases of fires. I know it would of drastically reduced the amount of panels I would of been able to install (April 2013). I have 34 panels now, with the new requirement I would of only been able to put up 28. Not that big of a reduction but it would have been a longer payback than the 3 years I had figured for the total out of pocket install money. Good Luck and only advice I can give is go with the highest wattage panel to maximize output for available areas which raises overall cost but still gets you to the finish line. Good Luck.

[J.P.M.]

About to enter into a P***ing match with the local city next week. They have been enforcing the NFPA1-2012 which this all stems from.
They have adopted this code and reference it but in the city code they adopted and promulgate the code as adopted by the state of Maryland.
The state specifically excludes one and two family dwellings.

Where's SEIA through all this ? Seems like they'd have a stake in this - perhaps nationwide it would seem. Are they even around anymore ?

[Naptown]

Where's SEIA through all this ? Seems like they'd have a stake in this - perhaps nationwide it would seem. Are they even around anymore ?

Screwed up big time but a bit late now

[Naptown]

Good Luck my friend.

Which is less expensive?

1. Fight and win, which is a gamble?
2. Comply and take your loss?

Pointing out their enforcement error costs nothing and everything to gain.
complacency cost hundreds of thousands on these projects and future ones.

[ocdave]

I think we kind of touched on this before. The CA code section that deals with this is
Title 24, Part 9, Chapter 6, Sec. 605.11. The setbacks specifically start at Sec. 605.11.3. This section provides and exception that states:

2. Panels/modules shall be permitted to he located up to the roof ridge where an alternative ventilation method approved by the fire chief has been provided or where the fire chief has determined vertical ventilation techniques will not be employed.

Your local building department probably can't help you - they are just implementing the code and may not have the authority to grant an exception, but there might be someone higher up than a clerk who could grant an exception. I think you have three (at least) options that are not mutually exclusive.

1. Contact the building permit dept. and find out what the appeal process is for a denied permit application.

2. Contact the local fire chief and ask for an evaluation of your proposed PV system, explaining your situation and the fact that only 30% of your roof would be covered by the PV system and there would be alternative access routes and ventillation areas and ask for a letter stating that s/he approves an alternative ventilation method (i.e., access from route on a roof slope other than the one you intend to put panes on). If s/he agrees, then you should be able to point to the above provision of CA code to get your permit.

3. Contact the State Fire Marshall and ask for a code interpretation. http://osfm.fire.ca.gov/codeinterpre...rpretation.php
This option carries the risk that State Fire Marshal does not give a favorable interpretation, then 1 and 2 would not be able to overcome her decision. Then the only recourse would be to have the code changed, which is possible, but longer term and more political.

I would check out #1 first and then #2, saving #3 for the last resort.

# 3 is something I've been considering doing myself, but I have been massively busy at work. I'm going to PM you. Maybe we could work together on this.

OverTheSun,
Thanks for the advice. I will circle back with my contractor and try to pursue #1 and #2. My contractor says that they have had success getting exceptions in SD county. Hoping for the same in my case. I will post an update when I get any new information.

[eugenep]

sunpower increases their advantage

OverTheSun,
Thanks for the advice. I will circle back with my contractor and try to pursue #1 and #2. My contractor says that they have had success getting exceptions in SD county. Hoping for the same in my case. I will post an update when I get any new information.

My installer told me about the code change, so I rushed to get my permit before the deadline. It was just luck on my part that I talked with an installer before the deadline. My house won't be completed until summer. That's why I think that Sunpower will become an even bigger player, because it gets you 30-40% more per sq ft.

[russ]

That's why I think that Sunpower will become an even bigger player, because it gets you 30-40% more per sq ft.

Wow! That is what the salesman told you? Without any reference I guess it could be true but in the real world it ain't so.

[eugenep]

Wow! That is what the salesman told you? Without any reference I guess it could be true but in the real world it ain't so.

No, that was my quick calculation in my head. I thought that many company's solar panel are rated for around 240 watts and the sunpower x21 which I am geting is 345 watts for the same size. 105/240 is 43.75%. The 43.75% is my calculated number. Is that not correct?

My salesman told me the 36" rule was going to be enforced in my town on Jan 1, 2014, so get my permits approved before then. I am closer than the 36" to both ridge and edge. He made no reference to the performance advantages of their panels.