Selling power as supplemental income

[foolhardy]

The fact that an on-grid solar system (is that the best term? It seems confusing) can "sell" power back to the grid (when there's a surplus) makes me wonder what the down-side would be to putting in a much larger system than your home requires. In learning about an on-grid solar system, I see myriad posts and instructions on precisely picking the exact-sized system for your home's needs. What is the down-side to putting in a system that would produce, say, TWICE your home's needs and selling the surplus back to the power company?

Obviously, the initial investment would be greater than a "perfectly" sized system for your needs but if the system more than pays for itself over it's ~30-year lifespan then doesn't it stand to reason that bigger = better in the long run?

In two years I will be building a home. Space and ability to clear shade-trees will not be an issue. I was wondering if a decent little investment in a larger solar system would be a good (long-term) supplemental income. For example, beyond my calculated home's needs, investing an extra $10,000, for example, in extra solar panels and a larger grid-tie inverter.

Thanks a lot for the great info.

Adam

[Sunking]

Your state energy policy will likely end your thoughts as many before you have thought the same thing, err I mean scam

Most Net Metering laws do not pay you cash, they only credit any excess to the next billing cycle. Any unused credit after one year is forfeited.

SO in all likelihood you pay for a lot of solar panels then give the energy away out of your wallet.

Co generators can do this but again there is a catch. You cannot use my money to build the systems, you have to have the permits, and then your plant goes on the market. You bid an ASK price and if an Electric Provider likes your price will buy it. If your competitor has a lower asking price you are SOL. In other words you only get wholesale rate of around 5-cents per Kwh. Couple that with not being able to pay for the system with my money, you will never make a single dime because you cannot compete. Yo would be forced to give the energy away to minimize your losses.

[foolhardy]

Well, this explains why I haven't seen a Subforum titled "Average Joe's Power Company - selling power for a living" and a thousand related posts and how-to's.

Thanks for the info.

[Sunking]

Well, this explains why I haven't seen a Subforum titled "Average Joe's Power Company - selling power for a living" and a thousand related posts and how-to's.

Thanks for the info.

Average Joe could not do it anyway. Everything has to be permitted, all plans done by a PE, and a dedicated maintenance staff to run the plant. You first have to start with site Environmental studies and go through public hearings before you could even think about it and proceed.

[russ]

Average Joe could not do it anyway. Everything has to be permitted, all plans done by a PE, and a dedicated maintenance staff to run the plant. You first have to start with site Environmental studies and go through public hearings before you could even think about it and proceed.

Most likely one would be selling at the wholesale rate as well.

[pleppik]

Keep in mind that Net Metering is a subsidy for solar. So net metering programs will all limit how much benefit you can get.

Where I live, you're not allowed to have any kind of net metering arrangement which is designed to produce more than 120% of your annual electric usage. Residential net-metered systems are also limited to 40kw.

But our utility is under a state mandate to produce a certain amount of solar power within the next few years--so if you want to go big, you can start negotiating a long-term power purchase agreement to build a commercial-scale solar plant and sell the power at wholesale.

[russ]

-so if you want to go big, you can start negotiating a long-term power purchase agreement to build a commercial-scale solar plant and sell the power at wholesale.

Don't be too surprised at the low price of wholesale power.

[Sunking]

But our utility is under a state mandate to produce a certain amount of solar power within the next few years--

Those will be going away before long once state regulators pull their heads out their arse and realize it is not feasible.

[russ]

Those will be going away before long once state regulators pull their heads out their arse and realize it is not feasible.

You mean like Germany & Spain? In those cases maybe not gone but a whole lot more rational than before.

[gregvet]

In our county, The electric Co-Op has a policy of discouraging excess energy production. The Co-Op runs a fiscal year of January 1 through December 31. Excess kWh produced as shown by their meter at the inverter as well as net usage from a net meter are documented. Every month when I receive my bill, there is recorded my month production as well as total usage. If I have an excess, it is "banked" and added to the production in the next month. If I use more it is deducted from this excess, remainder (if any) is carried forward. At the end of the year, if I have excess, a check is written to me for the excess at wholesale rate (6 cents/kWh). Even if I have an excess in one month, I have a $27.00 bill for the service charge.

[Sunking]

In our county, The electric Co-Op has a policy of discouraging excess energy production. The Co-Op runs a fiscal year of January 1 through December 31. Excess kWh produced as shown by their meter at the inverter as well as net usage from a net meter are documented. Every month when I receive my bill, there is recorded my month production as well as total usage. If I have an excess, it is "banked" and added to the production in the next month. If I use more it is deducted from this excess, remainder (if any) is carried forward. At the end of the year, if I have excess, a check is written to me for the excess at wholesale rate (6 cents/kWh). Even if I have an excess in one month, I have a $27.00 bill for the service charge.

Consider yourself very fortunate. In most states credits expire after one year if not used and you do not get squat.

IMO any excess should be bought at wholesale.

[gregvet]

Consider yourself very fortunate. In most states credits expire after one year if not used and you do not get squat.

IMO any excess should be bought at wholesale.

I agree. I just wish I can use the excess to offset my monthly service charge... But that would entail assigning a value of the remaining kWh.

[pleppik]

Those will be going away before long once state regulators pull their heads out their arse and realize it is not feasible.

It will be interesting to see how that plays out. In my state, the mandate is 1.5% of power has to come from solar by 2020. The utility gets to count everything generated by independently-owned grid connected systems.

That's going to be an aggressive goal at today's prices. But if they keep raising the electric rates at twice the rate of inflation, and if the price of solar keeps dropping, then the utility may find that they can hit their target without doing anything.

[SunEagle]

It will be interesting to see how that plays out. In my state, the mandate is 1.5% of power has to come from solar by 2020. The utility gets to count everything generated by independently-owned grid connected systems.

That's going to be an aggressive goal at today's prices. But if they keep raising the electric rates at twice the rate of inflation, and if the price of solar keeps dropping, then the utility may find that they can hit their target without doing anything.

One way the Utilities will slow down the growth of new solar installations is if they get their way with how much they pay for net metering or be able to charge a customer with solar generation extra per month based on a $/kw installed.

There has been a lot of push back by Utilities in a number of states starting in Arizona and while they didn't get the increase they wanted they did get something. The trend will grow making paybacks longer and less desirable for those that want to install but don't want to wait 10 years to get their money back.

The Utility will meet their renewable generation % of total but they also will find a way not to lose as much money as they are now.

[Sunking]

But if they keep raising the electric rates at twice the rate of inflation, and if the price of solar keeps dropping, then the utility may find that they can hit their target without doing anything.

Well fact is electricity rate hikes have always been much lower than inflation rates.

Solar is already selling below manufacturing price and really no where to go but up. Prices are so low because there are way too many manufactures with inventories they cannot sell. Many have already gone bankrupt.