Plug-in Grid tie inverter

[foolhardy]

In researching grid tie inverters, I've run across models that plug directly into 120v AC wall outlets. This begs the question: for a grid tie solar system for the purpose of powering a home and selling power back to the grid, can you have a setup as simple as: Solar Array > DC Disconnect > Grid Tie Inverter > Wall Outlet ? (Granted, it would need to be low-wattage since it would be going through the normal wiring and not heavy-duty hard-wired to the main power box)

plugin-solar-01.jpg

[Sunking]

Illegal to use in USA, end of discussion.

[russ]

Illegal to use in USA, end of discussion.

Not to mention dangerous - the parties selling this type of thing have one thing in mind only - the transfer of your money to their pocket.

There is never a guarantee (the unit is illegal after all) - no consumer protection such as UL or equivalent - just a piece of junk that invalidates your homeowners insurance plus, plus.

[Volusiano]

And without the correct smart meter (which you can only get if you do a legit grid tie), the meter may run forward on your solar plugin generation and you get charged extra for the production instead of getting credit for it.

[foolhardy]

Good info. Thanks for your input.

[SolarEU]

Plug-in Grid tie inverter - Europe

I think the plug-in Grid tie inverters are legal in many countries of Europe. I am just looking into this kind of solution. By now I have learned there is EN 50438 norm for micro inverters. When the micro inverter complies with this norm, it can be connected to the European 230V AC grid. I will check the links I have collected and post some for reference.

[russ]

I think the plug-in Grid tie inverters are legal in many countries of Europe. I am just looking into this kind of solution. By now I have learned there is EN 50438 norm for micro inverters. When the micro inverter complies with this norm, it can be connected to the European 230V AC grid. I will check the links I have collected and post some for reference.

Legal or not the plug in grid tie inverters are unsafe and stupid.

[Mike90250]

I think the plug-in Grid tie inverters are legal in many countries of Europe....

I don't possibly see how. You could easily plug several into a circuit, and easily overload the wires, but never trip the breaker in the panel:

panel (20a) ------ electric kettle | blowdryer | ---- PV/GT---PV/GT----PV/GT

together the kettle and blowdryer would trip the breaker in the panel, but with the PV feeding the other side of the breaker, you can easily exceed the wire limits.

[Sunking]

I don't possibly see how.

Well for one Americans are stupid when we designed the electrical architecture. Well not so much stupid, but the first ones to do it. UK and other countries learned from our mistakes.

UK and most other countries use 220-250 volt 30 amp circuits. We stupid Americans use 120 @ 15 and 20 amps. A single 240 30 amp circuit is good for 7200 watts like your dryer circuit in the USA. A 20 amp 120 circuit only 2400 instantaneously 1920 continious. Huge difference. They balso do not use a grounded circuit conductor which eliminates a lot of power quality problems.

Add to the fact UK uses Ring Circuits means a rather large house using a standard 200 amp service only needs 4 or 5 circuits for everything including heating, cooling, and cooking. Where as in the USA a 200 amp panel can use as many as 42 circuits.

[inetdog]

I think the plug-in Grid tie inverters are legal in many countries of Europe. I am just looking into this kind of solution. By now I have learned there is EN 50438 norm for micro inverters. When the micro inverter complies with this norm, it can be connected to the European 230V AC grid. I will check the links I have collected and post some for reference.

There is a big difference between allowing grid interactive inverters and allowing them to be plug connected to ordinary receptacles.
If it is legal for you, you would be well advised to connect it to its own receptacle circuit instead of one that is already in use in your house.
As mentioned earlier, one problem is that you can overload the circuit by plugging to many loads into it without tripping the breaker because the power is coming from two different sources simultaneously, each of which could not overload the circuit on its own.

[ButchDeal]

I really like these units. They work great and are safe. They have full anti island protection. Why the NEC is avoiding discussion and UL listing is completely business / political in nature. I would be glad to talk to you more about them. I am a master electrician in MD.

Bull **** no damn master electrician in the US would recommend an illegal non UL listed solution.

[SunEagle]

I really like these units. ...... I am a master electrician in MD.

If you are a master electrician then you know why the NEC will not approve that junk. If you don't believe in electrical equipment that connects to the power grid needing to be UL listed then you can't be a true master electrician for the US.

So please stop being a fool and either hang around to learn or take a hike back to your basement.

[Mike90250]

posted by eman21401 I really like these units. They work great and are safe. They have full anti island protection. Why the NEC is avoiding discussion and UL listing is completely business / political in nature. I would be glad to talk to you more about them. I am a master electrician in MD.

Bad/ Illegal advice gets you a vacation. We can't allow bad advice to neophytes to stand, unless it gives us a laugh, and then we quote it

[eman21401]

Bad/ Illegal advice gets you a vacation. We can't allow bad advice to neophytes to stand, unless it gives us a laugh, and then we quote it

mike, if you would like to talk about these devices intelligently, please let me know. as far as safety, back-feeding or overloading any circuits, if you plug them into a dedicated circuit, any potential problems are eliminated. like i told you, i am a master electrician in MD and am fully qualified to comment on these devices.

[Sean_Ork]

Add to the fact UK uses Ring Circuits means a rather large house using a standard 200 amp service only needs 4 or 5 circuits for everything including heating, cooling, and cooking.

A 200A supply is not standard in the UK.

Dedicated radials are used for heating, cooking and any other high demand appliances.