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  • Sunking
    Solar Fanatic
    • Feb 2010
    • 23301

    #16
    Originally posted by WildcatSolar
    Sunking, I have been convinced to go with a 48v system and not the 24 as I first started.
    That is a good thing, but on paper there is no difference whether it is 24 volts @ 900 AH or 48 volts @ 450 AH. Using the batteries you selected takes the exact same amount, just configured differently. What you will gain is 400% more efficiency in wiring losses by moving up from 24 to 48 volts.
    Originally posted by WildcatSolar
    The 3kw system would be understood to be used at 2kw or less during the winter months. I have a way to do this. In SC, even in the winter, I would average 8x210x3.3=5544wh of energy max. If one factors in losses, ineficiencies, etc., that should still work.
    Like I said I did not run all the numbers, just bringing up the point I did not see AC power factor and inverter efficiency accounted for. A lot of people do not understand AC power. For example using easy numbers supplying a 100 watt AC load with a PF of .8 and an inverter efficiency of 90% requires the battery to supply 100 watts / .9 /.8 = 139 watts.
    Originally posted by WildcatSolar
    The Evergreen corp may be in trouble. I do not doubt that. Plenty of companies are going through strains.
    My comments about Evergreen were just a word of caution. But FWIW they will not be sold or absorbed according to reports. The bond holders will move in and liquidate all assets and turn out the lights. There will be no company to honor any warranty, or sell you a like panel as they will likely cease to exist if reports are accurate. For perspective ESLR share price is $1.22, with an EPS of -$1.23. They owe $338 M, a book value of $160 M, profit margin of -92%, and not enough income to even pay the interest on their debt let alone operating expenses and raw materials. Share holders and customer will get nothing, and bond holders will only receive 40-cents on the dollar when liquidated. It is just not pretty, so be careful.
    Originally posted by WildcatSolar
    Many will die or be absorbed over a 25 year warranty period. I would be pushing 70 then. By then, new technologies will have emerged and I would replaced them with something much more efficient.
    Not sure I understand your logic. With a battery system you will be paying at minimum 10 times more than you would from commercial power over a 30 year period with the initial investment. If you replace the panels will require more expenditures and drive the cost even higher. From a fiscal POV I do not understand that logic. But that is just the engineer in me.
    Originally posted by WildcatSolar
    The 16 t105 Trojan batteries would give me 450ah at 48 volts. Two parrallel strings I admit, but plenty of people do it and I can get them for $121 a piece. That is the cheapest cost per AH I have found. Trojan may go under too, but I doubt it. They may be absorbed by another, but they won't fade away to nothing or at least probably not. Who knows these days. The Surrettes would be better. Agreed. If I do want to use a XW6048 inverter rather than a XW4548 as Mike recommended and I can do it for the same price, is there a downside if I may increase capacity later?
    Trojan is not going to go under, they are still profitable. Trojan's problem is they became complacent over decades because there was very little competition. Well now they have a lot of competition and failed to streamline, change ancient technology, so instead they cut quality to remain competitively priced. At best you are only going to get 4 years out of the batteries before having to replace them at higher prices. For long term investment it may well be less expensive to invest in a higher quality battery that can last 10 years even if they cost twice as much up front. After the first 10 years they would save you 25% in capital cost. Again that is the engineer in me looking out for folks money.
    MSEE, PE

    Comment

    • WildcatSolar
      Junior Member
      • Jul 2009
      • 16

      #17
      Mike, Thank you for the info.

      Sunking, I really appreciate your insight too. I am a quality engineer with an MBA. You helped me a great deal. I see this system in large part as a backup emergency supplement. It is very similar to me to having a fueled generator of some sort. I just don't want to have to buy fuel if things go bad for the dollar. No solar system with batteries is going to be cost effective with current grid pricing so I understand your points. I am not looking for 25 years on this. As technologies change, I figure 10 years or so. If it goes longer than that on some components, well and good. If not, well some piece of mind would be worth something. Thank you for your help.

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