Need your opinion again. LG System 3.3K W

[advan24r]

So, now I'm leaning away from SunPower after reading about numerous posts that other brands are just as good if you have the space and no shading issues. I am more concerned on the long run since my kids are still young and we plan on staying at our house for the next 15-20 years until they go off to college. The downside is that LG has only a 10 year WORKMANSHIP warranty and a typical 25 year production warranty (like Sunpower). I am more worried about the 10 year WORKMANSHIP warranty (but the installer that quoted has a 15 year WORKMANSHIP warranty)

This is my next quote:

11 LG LG300N1C-G3 Modules, 3.3KW system w/SMA America SB3000TL-US-22

CONTRACT COST: $13,990 ($4.24 /DC Watt)
AFTER INCENTIVES: $10,073 ($3.05 /DC Watt)

I notice that ALOT of the BEST DEALS are being had in San Diego county. I am in North California and this seems to be one of the better deals when I compared it to the CSI database.

My questions are: How is LG quality/durability vs. Sunpower (I understand LG may survive as a business longer but how about the products)?

Which inverter would be better, SB or Power-One?

[Ian S]

My questions are: How is LG quality/durability vs. Sunpower (I understand LG may survive as a business longer but how about the products)?

Which inverter would be better, SB or Power-One?

It's a crap shoot trying to guess which solar company is going to be around longer and even though LG is almost certain be here in 20 years, they could jettison their solar products without a second thought if they had to. Sunpower touts that their decline in production with age is less than the competition. That said, I don't think I'd pay a significant premium for their panels unless you have limited space. I think both Sunny Boy and Power One are fine inverters. The Sunny Boy has the feature of a power outlet where you can get some limited power if the grid is down and the sun is shining.

[Volusiano]

I would agree that the Sunpower panels has the advantage in roof space efficiency, but I'm not sure why you think it has an advantage in shading. I would think that the shading issue (if you have any) should be handled by the use of microinverters or power optimizers for each panel fed to a string inverter below (a la SolarEdge approach). I don't think Sunpower panels is impervious to shading issue compared to other brands.

Many installers give parts and labor warranty based on the inverters, and extend it out to cover the panels the same as well. Usually the string inverters carry 15 year warranty so even though the typical panel has only 10 year product warranty (and 25 years production warranty), the installers are confident enough to extend their own warranty on the panels to 15 years anyway. Heck, my installer even gives me 20 year part and labor warranty for the whole system (Canadian Solar & SMA inverters). But you gotta ask yourself whether they're going to be in business that long to honor it or not.

The way I see it, it's nice to see that Sunpower has 25 years product and production warranty combined where most other panels only has 10 year product warranty (and 25 year production warranty). But that's only part warranty. If your installer is out of business by then, you're still going to have to pay for labor to diagnose the failure, remove the panel and send it back to the manufacturer to validate the failure before they send back a replacement, at which time you're going to have to pay for labor again to have it installed again. So the bulk of the cost will be labor and the part cost is minimal. So to me, the more important warranty to me is the installer's warranty (and their chance of still being in business when you need it) as opposed to a 10 vs 25 year product warranty from the manufacturer.

[J.P.M.]

So, now I'm leaning away from SunPower after reading about numerous posts that other brands are just as good if you have the space and no shading issues. I am more concerned on the long run since my kids are still young and we plan on staying at our house for the next 15-20 years until they go off to college. The downside is that LG has only a 10 year WORKMANSHIP warranty and a typical 25 year production warranty (like Sunpower). I am more worried about the 10 year WORKMANSHIP warranty (but the installer that quoted has a 15 year WORKMANSHIP warranty)

This is my next quote:

11 LG LG300N1C-G3 Modules, 3.3KW system w/SMA America SB3000TL-US-22

CONTRACT COST: $13,990 ($4.24 /DC Watt)
AFTER INCENTIVES: $10,073 ($3.05 /DC Watt)

I notice that ALOT of the BEST DEALS are being had in San Diego county. I am in North California and this seems to be one of the better deals when I compared it to the CSI database.

My questions are: How is LG quality/durability vs. Sunpower (I understand LG may survive as a business longer but how about the products)?

Which inverter would be better, SB or Power-One?

1.) Still seems high for LG, but not terrible considering system size. I'd get more quotes. You have time. Don't be stampeded.

2.) IMO, the best warranty you will ever get comes from a lot of due diligence before and perhaps more importantly after contract signing. Invest the time. You won't be sorry.

3.) I wouldn't be surprised if by the time any written warranty runs out everything on your roof will likely be outdated and you may have already replaced it. Also, I'd wager most 10-15 yr. old existing jobs you can find are outdated by current standards but are probably still working just fine, provided the owners did min. maintenance along the way.

4.) If some (by no means all) of the best deals are in S.D. co. , part of the reason may be that more than a few of us alt. energy wackos hammer our neighbors and particularly the vendors about the info on the CSI database and also about this and similar forums. Word gets around. Simple truth to power, that sort of thing.

[advan24r]

1.) Still seems high for LG, but not terrible considering system size. I'd get more quotes. You have time. Don't be stampeded.

2.) IMO, the best warranty you will ever get comes from a lot of due diligence before and perhaps more importantly after contract signing. Invest the time. You won't be sorry.

3.) I wouldn't be surprised if by the time any written warranty runs out everything on your roof will likely be outdated and you may have already replaced it. Also, I'd wager most 10-15 yr. old existing jobs you can find are outdated by current standards but are probably still working just fine, provided the owners did min. maintenance along the way.

4.) If some (by no means all) of the best deals are in S.D. co. , part of the reason may be that more than a few of us alt. energy wackos hammer our neighbors and particularly the vendors about the info on the CSI database and also about this and similar forums. Word gets around. Simple truth to power, that sort of thing.

JPM,

It seems that most of your opinions seem that I can do better. But when I do compare apples to apples in similar areas (city/counties), the pricing I get regardless of the brand (LG or Sunpower), the pricing I am getting is actually pretty good. I use the CSI database to compare and already got the concensus that SAN DIEGO is just that much cheaper vs. the ALAMEDA COUNTY (BAY AREA). For instance, w/sunpower, I did 4 installers, all came around the same ball park. Therefore w/LG, I had the cheapest Sunpower bid quote me using those panels and figured it is a good price since I also did some comparisons on the CSI database. It is a tad more compared to S.Cal, but like I said, I've accepted that the Bay Area is just an expensive place to live.

[silversaver]

Smaller system usually more $$$ per watt comparing with bigger system. 3.3kW DC solar is pretty small, is that enough to cover your bills? Or you are limited by roof space? I wont worry about the warranty, they don't fail easy. I recently installed a 6.63 kW DC system for $18,799. I also read few posts about people getting LG290 with enphase M250 for about $3.5 to $3.6 per Watt. The installers are all from San Diego area.

[J.P.M.]

JPM,

It seems that most of your opinions seem that I can do better. But when I do compare apples to apples in similar areas (city/counties), the pricing I get regardless of the brand (LG or Sunpower), the pricing I am getting is actually pretty good. I use the CSI database to compare and already got the concensus that SAN DIEGO is just that much cheaper vs. the ALAMEDA COUNTY (BAY AREA). For instance, w/sunpower, I did 4 installers, all came around the same ball park. Therefore w/LG, I had the cheapest Sunpower bid quote me using those panels and figured it is a good price since I also did some comparisons on the CSI database. It is a tad more compared to S.Cal, but like I said, I've accepted that the Bay Area is just an expensive place to live.

No offense intended. It seems like your diligence is bearing fruit. I bet you know more than you did when you began this quest and that you'll get a better system as a result and still save a few bucks for your trouble.

1.) More quotes can include other reputable manufacturers.

2.) Are you revealing prices to other vendors ? That's a good way to lock in a price.

3.) At the risk of sounding like I'm talking out of both sides of my mouth, it's terrible to pay too much, but worse to pay too little. It's possible you may have about the best non S.P. price possible without shooting yourself in the foot by squeezing a vendor so hard they feel they need to cut corners. That's a gut call. You still, however, have time for more research and more quotes justified by the $$'s you're about to invest.

[advan24r]

No offense intended. It seems like your diligence is bearing fruit. I bet you know more than you did when you began this quest and that you'll get a better system as a result and still save a few bucks for your trouble.

1.) More quotes can include other reputable manufacturers.

2.) Are you revealing prices to other vendors ? That's a good way to lock in a price.

3.) At the risk of sounding like I'm talking out of both sides of my mouth, it's terrible to pay too much, but worse to pay too little. It's possible you may have about the best non S.P. price possible without shooting yourself in the foot by squeezing a vendor so hard they feel they need to cut corners. That's a gut call. You still, however, have time for more research and more quotes justified by the $$'s you're about to invest.

Well, I am now leaning towards this LG system. My roof is definitely limited and has alot of jagged edges. At most I can fit 13 panels of any brand but that's just an estimate. Only one area on my roof has some slight shading issue but can be overcome w/this system of 11 panels. That is why my system is small. It's enough to get me out of tier 3 and 4 that I always fall into consistently every month. I see the savings as tuition for my children's college once warranty expires.

[J.P.M.]

Well, I am now leaning towards this LG system. My roof is definitely limited and has alot of jagged edges. At most I can fit 13 panels of any brand but that's just an estimate. Only one area on my roof has some slight shading issue but can be overcome w/this system of 11 panels. That is why my system is small. It's enough to get me out of tier 3 and 4 that I always fall into consistently every month. I see the savings as tuition for my children's college once warranty expires.

The question occurred to me: How much electricity are you using ? How about conservation savings ?

[advan24r]

The question occurred to me: How much electricity are you using ? How about conservation savings ?

I use about 800-1000kWh every month. Monthly bills avg about $200ish. Conservation has been done. I've changed most of my house light bulbs to LEDs, we do laundry at night. Turn off whatever electrical equipment off when no one is around. House is about 10 years old only so most of the appliances are ENERGY STAR rated. I turn down our water heater when on vacation, windows are double paned. We have about 6 people living in the house (in-laws, wife and i, and 2 little kids). So as you can see, there's not much else I can do unless I kick my in-laws out hahaha...and then my kids, when they get older, probably will use more power too.

[silversaver]

I use about 800-1000kWh every month. Monthly bills avg about $200ish. Conservation has been done. I've changed most of my house light bulbs to LEDs, we do laundry at night. Turn off whatever electrical equipment off when no one is around. House is about 10 years old only so most of the appliances are ENERGY STAR rated. I turn down our water heater when on vacation, windows are double paned. We have about 6 people living in the house (in-laws, wife and i, and 2 little kids). So as you can see, there's not much else I can do unless I kick my in-laws out hahaha...and then my kids, when they get older, probably will use more power too.

Your roof only good for 13 panels? Or other roofs facing at north and other direction? My neighbor has very limited roof space facing toward south, but he still manage to install 28 panels that facing all 4 directions..... I know, but he has no choice...

[advan24r]

Your roof only good for 13 panels? Or other roofs facing at north and other direction? My neighbor has very limited roof space facing toward south, but he still manage to install 28 panels that facing all 4 directions..... I know, but he has no choice...

Yes, technically they can install more on the back side of my house but it won't get full exposure. The estimated 13 are areas where it would get 85-97% sunlight according to their measurements. Even my neighbor who just had Solar City install Trina panels for a 4kW system couldn't get much more panels on just the fact how our homes are facing and limited roof space.

[advan24r]

So I signed for the LG system. My next question is, should I go with Power-One or Sunnyboy Inverter (w/the built in outlet)? Also, any pros or cons having the conduits run outside of the house vs. attic run?

[inetdog]

So I signed for the LG system. My next question is, should I go with Power-One or Sunnyboy Inverter (w/the built in outlet)? Also, any pros or cons having the conduits run outside of the house vs. attic run?

Outside is safer, but when designing be careful of the reduction in allowed amps for a particular wire size when conduit is run above a roof and exposed to sunlight.

Some will tell you that as long as it is in conduit the risk of running inside the attic is not great, and the NEC lends some support to that by allowing such an installation. It is an individual decision and should take into account how the outside conduit will look. (Although paint can go a long way to making it inconspicuous.)

[Volusiano]

So I signed for the LG system. My next question is, should I go with Power-One or Sunnyboy Inverter (w/the built in outlet)? Also, any pros or cons having the conduits run outside of the house vs. attic run?

The obvious disadvantage in running outside beside the look is that if you need to redo your roof later on (new underlayment or new shingles), the conduit will be in the way a little bit, although not a big issue.

My installer ran my conduit inside the attic. I think it's a popular choice because of the better/cleaner look. As long as the local city and national codes allows it, I'd personally prefer to run it inside the attic myself for the look and to keep it out of the way off the roof. It may also depends on how long a run you'd have to make. In my case, my panels are on the west roof and I'd have to run a very long outside conduit over to the east roof and down to the ground, which is not ideal. An attic run allow me to keep the wire length much shorter in a more direct line as opposed to having to run along the edges on the outside which would result in easily a doubling in wire length. If you happen to have a very short run from your panels straight down to the ground to the inverter nearby, that may be more ideal.

As for which inverter, I think brand-wise, they're both good. What you want to look for is whether one is transformer or transformer-less (TL). TL is probably more desirable because they're lighter, don't generate as much heat, and don't hum. They're probably a newer design with a nice graphical display (I have an SMA 4000TL). With a TL type, you can probably even install it inside your garage (for more security) if you want without much issue because it doesn't heat up your garage and make noise.

Another key thing to look for is the warranty length between the inverter brands. They range anywhere from 5 to 20 years, depending on the market/buyer/option choice. Ask your contractor what they offer and if there's any difference between the SMA or PowerOne.