Looking for feedback from homeowners of solar panels on roofs

[inetdog]

I agree. His tiles look like something that would work as the roof of an open shed or trellis. It would provide shade and some protection from rain. Not something I would install as a roof for my house.

You would if the roof substructure were nominally-waterproof concrete and the roof tiles are mostly decorative, in addition to providing some weather protection to keep the concrete roof from absorbing too much water or being damaged by freezing of absorbed water.

[jam583]

I applaud you for your effort and best wishes as you continue to evolve the technology. Having started many companies, I know how discouraging feedback can be, even though it's important, keep your head up and keep doing what you are doing. This entire industry needs product development, so thank you.

[SunEagle]

The underlayment is just a soft non-permeable layer. It's not a hard subroof.

You're assuming that your tile can never be damaged so you don't need any backup protection. That is a flawed assumption. I would never use such a roof system where there is no backup protection in case of tile failure. Even concrete tile is not invincible and can break and fail.

I agree. His tiles look like something that would work as the roof of an open shed or trellis. It would provide shade and some protection from rain. Not something I would install as a roof for my house.

[Volusiano]

In our case, we didn't need any "underlayment" because there is a subroof which is a concrete plate so even in case of "water" there is no need for panic.

Gregor

The underlayment is just a soft non-permeable layer. It's not a hard subroof.

You're assuming that your tile can never be damaged so you don't need any backup protection. That is a flawed assumption. I would never use such a roof system where there is no backup protection in case of tile failure. Even concrete tile is not invincible and can break and fail.

[sumoborac]

I expect that actually the picture shown is a photo shop job.

Uf... that one is low. Only photoshop that picture has had was "color level" correction. Everything else is original.

How can you be developing a roof tile if you don't know what the underlayment does? There are many components to roofing. The board to provide backing, the underlayment to keep the water out if the primary roofing material (either shingles or tiles) fails to keep the water out.

So the point of the outer most layer (shingle or tile) is to provide primary protection against rain, but more importantly, against the sun. But if a shingle or several shingles get loose and blown off in a storm, or if a tile or several tiles get damages (cracked or dislocated for some reason), the underlayment is the next layer of protection to keep water out from entering the home. And finally, the baseboard is the backing for the underlayment.

Even if the shingles or tiles are not damaged, they only cascade water down, but they're not entirely water proof. There may be cracks and crevices at the ridge or places around the roof that can cause moisture to seep under the shingles or tiles. Without the underlayment, this moisture will find its way into your ceiling easily.

To be honest, I have no idea what the underlayment is (at least in english). I do know how the roofs are done around here.

In our case, we didn't need any "underlayment" because there is a subroof which is a concrete plate so even in case of "water" there is no need for panic.

Gregor

[SunEagle]

Something is wrong. I have started receiving "Reply to thread"s from things I read a week
ago. Bruce Roe

Yeah. I have been in discussion about this with russ. I was not getting any emails with respect to my reply's to threads for a few days and now I am getting all of them days later. Some type of log jam or issue with the Web Server I would think.

[russ]

I expect that actually the picture shown is a photo shop job.

[Volusiano]

Huh, interesting. Here the second layer is usually only the "steam" foil to let the steam and moisture from inside the house out,but not the other way around.
What is the point of having roof then? To have a shade?

How can you be developing a roof tile if you don't know what the underlayment does? There are many components to roofing. The board to provide backing, the underlayment to keep the water out if the primary roofing material (either shingles or tiles) fails to keep the water out.

So the point of the outer most layer (shingle or tile) is to provide primary protection against rain, but more importantly, against the sun. But if a shingle or several shingles get loose and blown off in a storm, or if a tile or several tiles get damages (cracked or dislocated for some reason), the underlayment is the next layer of protection to keep water out from entering the home. And finally, the baseboard is the backing for the underlayment.

Even if the shingles or tiles are not damaged, they only cascade water down, but they're not entirely water proof. There may be cracks and crevices at the ridge or places around the roof that can cause moisture to seep under the shingles or tiles. Without the underlayment, this moisture will find its way into your ceiling easily.

The tiles are not sealed. They have around 8cm of double coverage, and they are at an angle, so the water drips down. To be clear, the styleTILE is not to be used on roofs with less then 15° angle.

From the picture, your tile is the ONLY layer between the open sky and the inside of the house. There's no board to provide backing, no underlayment for secondary protection. What happens if one or several styleTILEs are damaged/broken? How are you going to keep the water out then without any secondary layer of protection?

[russ]

Actually clay tiles are really a second rate product - over years they degrade. Cement tiles are far better.

[Volusiano]

True. But usually when people replace the underlayment (the construction under the roof tiles?) they also change the roof tiles (at least here). And why not change the the tiles if you are planing to have the PV roof?

Shingles may need to be replaced more often, at the same time as the underlayment replacement. But if concrete or clay tiles can last 50 years, why pay extra to change them when you don't need to? What roofers do in the US is simply set aside the concrete/clay tiles nearby on the roof, replace the underlayment, and simply put the concrete/clay tiles back on top again.

[Volusiano]

Am... vent pipes? I honestly don't know what would that refer to on PV roof. I thoutght you are talking about water panels (for hot water)
There is no need for any holes in the styleTILE roof. From the end of the string to the inverter there is a shielded cable which is under the roof.

Or am I missing something?

Maybe home construction in Europe is different than in the US. What I'm talking about is the drain/sewage plumbing vent that allows air to be drawn in when water is drained from the bathroom sink/shower/tub/toilet. It's very common in the US to run this plumbing vent pipe directly up through the roof. There are other ways to avoid this, but usually it's common practice and the lowest cost to plumb bathrooms this way. Also, bathrooms in the US usually also has an exhaust fan that draws out moisture/odor from bathroom/toilet. This exhaust pipe usually is plumbed directly up through the roof as well. Similar with kitchen exhaust fans for cooking. Or ventilation for the laundry dryer (this can either go out to the side or up through the roof).

That is why it's no big deal at all in the US to have holes through the roof for these kinds of vent pipes. With proper flashing installed for these pipes, the roof should remain leak free with no problem at all. That's why the whole premise of your video about how your father objected to having holes in the roof doesn't resonate with me at all. Holes in the roof are no big deal in the US. Holes for solar panels with proper flashing should be no big deal just the same.

[bcroe]

Replys

Hi Guys! Don't know why, but I just received the first mail
"Replay to thread" today, so I didn't saw any of your comments until now. Gregor

Something is wrong. I have started receiving "Reply to thread"s from things I read a week
ago. Bruce Roe

[sumoborac]

Ok. Replied to everyone. Enough for tonight

I'll be back tomorrow, If anyone has more specific questions you can also send me an email at gregor[at]pollak.si

Gregor Pollak

[sumoborac]

OK. I understand how a tile roof works but here in the US there is a layer beneath the tiles that keeps out the rain. The picture of you installing your tiles on a wooden stringers looked like there was a big opening below.

Is there another layer of roofing material below the wooden stringers that keeps out the rain? If not then how are the tiles sealed to keep out water?

Huh, interesting. Here the second layer is usually only the "steam" foil to let the steam and moisture from inside the house out,but not the other way around.
What is the point of having roof then? To have a shade?

The tiles are not sealed. They have around 8cm of double coverage, and they are at an angle, so the water drips down. To be clear, the styleTILE is not to be used on roofs with less then 15° angle. We had quite few rainy days this year, even with winds but no water bellow.

Well, something new learned

[sumoborac]

You talked around the subject but never addressed my question: where do you put vent pipes when you install the styleTile if you don't cut holes in the roof to feed the vent pipes? Especially if your scenario is to replace and existing roof with styleTile -> an existing roof already has many vent pipes.

Am... vent pipes? I honestly don't know what would that refer to on PV roof. I thoutght you are talking about water panels (for hot water)
There is no need for any holes in the styleTILE roof. From the end of the string to the inverter there is a shielded cable which is under the roof.

Or am I missing something?

Maybe for shingles roofing your styleTile can replace the shingles. But a lot of homes use concrete or clay tiles that can easily last for 50 years. The only part that needs replacement is the underlayment, which should last around 15-20 years. Your styleTile would not apply for concrete or clay tile roofs because you don't replace the tiles, only the underlayment. So your market gets narrower than originally claimed.

True. But usually when people replace the underlayment (the construction under the roof tiles?) they also change the roof tiles (at least here). And why not change the the tiles if you are planing to have the PV roof?