Solar quote for Pre-paid lease/purchase in SoCal

[silversaver]

regardless of pre-paid lease or cash buy, just make sure you have the lowest up front cost to you. I just not favor in lease or finance the solar system, it will increase your ROI. Anything take more than 10 years to return, I don't think is a good investment. It is now October 2013, not way you can have cash your Fed incentive for 2013 and even the SCE is out of CSI...... I'll suggest hold your decision, I believe the price will come down in next couple months. My friend got his 4.5kW AC SunPower system started last September and pay $6 per watt net after incentive..... You have until 2016 to cash your Fed incentive, no rush if price is still high for you.

[Naptown]

Panel prices have fallen since last September to a low this spring.
Since then they have stabilized or risen slightly.
Yes there are always deals for modules and there is still residual modules from manufacturers who have gone out of business but on a whole dealers are for the most part using current modules.
The days of falling prices are for theist part over.
I suspect they will go up as the industry shake out continues

[J.P.M.]

Their Guaranteed energy cost per kWh is $0.1627 and it goes up 3% every year. Performance Guarantee kWh is 95% of Estimated Annual kWh. So for 1st year, estimated annual output is 6230 kWh, their system is guaranteed to provide 5919 kWh o/p. JPM, which Solar provider do you recommend? Do you recommend purchase or pre-paid lease option?

Note: there is more to this reply that got cut off for some reason. PM me when you get 10 posts if you want to discuss. J.P.M.
As I alluded to below, I think leases are a very bad way to go, but this is not the place to start that discussion, if at all. It''s a free country and it ain't my house/situation/life/money, etc. My sadness, if I have any, is that I see and speak with many people on a daily basis making decisions involving many thousands of $'s and very likely changes in lifestyle and they have little or no awareness of what is involved. Nor do they have the tools to make an informed decision.

I do not recommend specific vendors. I'd only suggest the following as things to consider:

1.) Question everything everyone says - me included and know the answers to your questions before you ask. One of the big reasons for asking questions is to find out what the other person knows as much as confirming information.
2.) Conserve first. Not using something is almost always cheaper than buying more of it. Any resulting solar system will be smaller and less $$'s to boot.
3.) Learn something about things like the time value of money, life cycle costing and financial analysis. Foe example,some folks know that there are other and probably better ways to think of payback than initial cost divided by annual savings. Those folks are better prepared to compare the long term costs of something or comparison of alternatives and can wind up making better long term choices, or at least walk in with their eyes open.
4.) Get several quotes but pick bidders with care. I've had luck getting quotes from long time electrical contractors who also sell solar. The logic: those folks have been in business for a while, probably know what things like project scheduling, design, planning, inventory control, customer service and lots of other stuff necessary to running a business of that sort need.t mean. They can hire good and knowledgeable solar folks who don't need to know how to run the business but only need to concentrate on their specialty: solar.
5.) Learn how your electric bill is calculated. Most folks have not a clue. Understand why it may not be cost effective to offset your entire electric bill. They

[Ian S]

I think leases are a very bad way to go

The problem I have with this statement is that it is a categorical denunciation of leasing without the important caveat that it really depends on an individual's circumstances. For example, I could envision someone who lives modestly and yet owns some significant but very conservative investments - perhaps in a Roth IRA - that don't yield a lot of taxable income. That person might not pay much in the way of federal income tax and therefore might not be able to take full advantage of the 30% tax credit because it is non-refundable. Now the leased system looks more attractive because the benefit of the tax credit is not limited by the individual's circumstances.

I'm kind of sensitive to such black and white statements since I also was warned two years ago about the foolishness of leasing and nearly scrapped my plans to go solar as a result. Fortunately, I studied the opportunity more and ultimately made the decision to go with a prepaid lease. I haven't regretted it for a single second. It was the absolutely right decision at the right time for me and my circumstances. Obviously, one has to do one's own homework and probably for most people with the means, outright purchase will make the most sense. But people ought to consider all available options in light of their own financial circumstances and in some of those cases, the lease may make the most sense.

[J.P.M.]

The problem I have with this statement is that it is a categorical denunciation of leasing without the important caveat that it really depends on an individual's circumstances. For example, I could envision someone who lives modestly and yet owns some significant but very conservative investments - perhaps in a Roth IRA - that don't yield a lot of taxable income. That person might not pay much in the way of federal income tax and therefore might not be able to take full advantage of the 30% tax credit because it is non-refundable. Now the leased system looks more attractive because the benefit of the tax credit is not limited by the individual's circumstances.

I'm kind of sensitive to such black and white statements since I also was warned two years ago about the foolishness of leasing and nearly scrapped my plans to go solar as a result. Fortunately, I studied the opportunity more and ultimately made the decision to go with a prepaid lease. I haven't regretted it for a single second. It was the absolutely right decision at the right time for me and my circumstances. Obviously, one has to do one's own homework and probably for most people with the means, outright purchase will make the most sense. But people ought to consider all available options in light of their own financial circumstances and in some of those cases, the lease may make the most sense.

I wish the rest of my rant hadn't been cut off. Had it not, it might have made the above unnecessary. Part of what I wrote that was cut off was that everyone's circumstance is different and opinions vary. The part that wasn't cut off also stated that it ain't my money/house /life etc. I'll support your right to sit on your front lawn and burn $20 bills, just don't ask me to believe it's a good idea. My point overall was that people are making big decisions with usually little, no, or insufficient or accurate information and they are mostly clueless about it. I also stated that perhaps the least onerous form of lease may be prepaid, although it still has too many drawbacks for my money. While not agreeing with the statement that mine was a categorical denunciation of leasing, after also doing my due diligence and a lot of homework I'm of the sincere opinion that leases are, on balance neither good for the consumer or the solar industry in the long term for reasons too involved to get into here.

The question occurred to be - did you do a life cycle cost analysis on how much you saved/lost by waiting two years while the prices dropped a fair amount ? Did you get requotes after the two years? Also, if I might ask, how much did you reduce your electric load before solar, or was that not a necessary consideration in your case ?

Respectfully,

J.P.M.

[Ian S]

Comments in bold.

I wish the rest of my rant hadn't been cut off. Had it not, it might have made the above unnecessary. Part of what I wrote that was cut off was that everyone's circumstance is different and opinions vary. The part that wasn't cut off also stated that it ain't my money/house /life etc. I'll support your right to sit on your front lawn and burn $20 bills, just don't ask me to believe it's a good idea. My point overall was that people are making big decisions with usually little, no, or insufficient or accurate information and they are mostly clueless about it. I also stated that perhaps the least onerous form of lease may be prepaid, although it still has too many drawbacks for my money. It would be great to know what those specific drawbacks are. After all, you correctly bemoan folks making decisions based on insufficient information yet don't really share the specific info you've gleaned from your efforts. While not agreeing with the statement that mine was a categorical denunciation of leasing, after also doing my due diligence and a lot of homework I'm of the sincere opinion that leases are, on balance neither good for the consumer or the solar industry in the long term for reasons too involved to get into here. IMHO, this forum is the perfect place to explain how your due diligence led you to your conclusions about leasing.

The question occurred to be - did you do a life cycle cost analysis on how much you saved/lost by waiting two years while the prices dropped a fair amount ? Considering that APS rebates have dropped from $1.00 to $0.10 per watt, the section 1603 federal grants ended in 2011, and for whatever other reasons Sunpower's initial prepaid leases were priced dirt-cheap ($0.97/watt in my case,) I doubt I could have come anywhere close to the price of my prepaid Sunpower lease (6.9 kW system) had I waited. Did you get requotes after the two years?No, I haven't felt the need. I do keep up on others' experiences though. Also, if I might ask, how much did you reduce your electric load before solar, or was that not a necessary consideration in your case ?My patio home was built in 1969. It's concrete block/stucco construction with no practical way to add wall insulation. I have considerable expanses of floor-to-ceiling single pane glass that I priced out at $25-30K minimum to replace. There is no attic or even crawl space under the flat roof for extra insulation but I did switch to a more energy efficient foam roof. I also ditched the old electric dryer for a gas one and have always had gas hot water heaters.

Respectfully,

J.P.M.

Leasing solar isn't for everyone but then neither is purchasing. It all comes down to individual circumstances. While I'm not a big fan of monthly lease payments, I also realize that not everyone has the financial means to throw $20K or more into purchasing a system. And if that person, in taking on monthly lease payments, can wind up saving $500 or more a year on their combined lease plus electric bill not too mention reducing use of fossil-fuel derived electricity, who am I to say they are wrong to do so?

[GoGreen2013]

Comments in bold.

Leasing solar isn't for everyone but then neither is purchasing. It all comes down to individual circumstances. While I'm not a big fan of monthly lease payments, I also realize that not everyone has the financial means to throw $20K or more into purchasing a system. And if that person, in taking on monthly lease payments, can wind up saving $500 or more a year on their combined lease plus electric bill not too mention reducing use of fossil-fuel derived electricity, who am I to say they are wrong to do so?

1. Guaranteed kWh over 20 yrs is 112857 KWH. So the cost over 20 yrs. is approx 8.4 cents per KWH. Tier1 rate for SDGE is 15 cents at present.
2. My annual consumption is approx 5900 KWH and at present SDGE rates annual cost is approx $1000. Dividing cost of lease by this annual cost gives me 9.5 yrs, so I start breaking even from year 10 onward. If I decide to get EV, then my consumption will go up and reduce the time to break even further.

Does this logic make sense?

[Ian S]

1. Guaranteed kWh over 20 yrs is 112857 KWH. So the cost over 20 yrs. is approx 8.4 cents per KWH. Tier1 rate for SDGE is 15 cents at present.
2. My annual consumption is approx 5900 KWH and at present SDGE rates annual cost is approx $1000. Dividing cost of lease by this annual cost gives me 9.5 yrs, so I start breaking even from year 10 onward. If I decide to get EV, then my consumption will go up and reduce the time to break even further.

Does this logic make sense?

Pretty much. Do get some other quotes to ensure the pricing is reasonable. What inverter BTW?

[SanDiego_installer]

ET panels are about as cheap as they come. What inverter is included? The purchase price of a 4kW system with LG panels and an SMA inverter is sub $3.50/Watt. The net cost after tax credit is the same as the prepaid lease, except the equipment is far superior with the purchase. The energy production is guaranteed by the panel manufacturer, 25 year performance warranty by LG. That's why it is important to select a name brand.

Your timing is good. If you can have your system installed by year end, then you'll be able to claim the tax credit right away.

Don't get caught up on the free maintenance hype from the leasing companies. PV systems are maintenance free.

[Ian S]

PV systems are maintenance free.

Except for the string inverter. And is labor included in the panel performance guarantee? And if a problem arises in ten years, who pays to trouble shoot it?

[Naptown]

ET panels are about as cheap as they come. What inverter is included? The purchase price of a 4kW system with LG panels and an SMA inverter is sub $3.50/Watt. The net cost after tax credit is the same as the prepaid lease, except the equipment is far superior with the purchase. The energy production is guaranteed by the panel manufacturer, 25 year performance warranty by LG. That's why it is important to select a name brand.

Your timing is good. If you can have your system installed by year end, then you'll be able to claim the tax credit right away.

Don't get caught up on the free maintenance hype from the leasing companies. PV systems are maintenance free.

Second notice
Seems you sell only sharp and LG
Tone the pitch down
Or you can go away
Really only about 5 clicks and one minute from my phone. Less time on a computer.

[NRGjason]

Leasing your Solar System

Hey GoGreen2013,

Just wondering if are still looking around for quotes on your system.
If you send me a PM, maybe I can beat what you have so far.

If you already have made a decision, I understand.

Thanks!

[Naptown]

Hey GoGreen2013,

Just wondering if are still looking around for quotes on your system.
If you send me a PM, maybe I can beat what you have so far.

If you already have made a decision, I understand.

Thanks!

Please no overt trolling for customers here.
If you wish to contribute fine. If you only want to market then perhaps go to AWS and do it there

[NRGjason]

Please no overt trolling for customers here.
If you wish to contribute fine. If you only want to market then perhaps go to AWS and do it there

Understood.

My apologies.

Thanks.

[Volusiano]

Except for the string inverter. And is labor included in the panel performance guarantee? And if a problem arises in ten years, who pays to trouble shoot it?

Do most string inverters go bad after 10-15 years? A couple of installers whom I got quotes from told me that SMA inverters have a 15 year warranty on them. One of those two installers quoted me an overall 15 year warranty from them. The other installer quoted me an overall (parts & labor included) 20 year warranty from them. I went with the later partly due to this 20 year warranty and also because they have the lowest bid.

I asked them if they only receive a 15-year warranty from SMA for the string inverters, why would they want to extend it out to 20 years? They said that they have high confidence in the reliability of SMA inverters so they're willing to stick their neck out and extend the SMA inverters for up to 20 years, with the last 5 years being warrantied by them and not by SMA anymore. Of course none of this matters if they're not going to be in business in 20 years. But nevertheless, the point is that SMA probably wouldn't have offered 15 year warranty on their string inverters unless they have data to back it up that their inverters should last at least a little bit longer than that in the field.

On the other hand, I saw some posts where DIY people are talking about buying SMA inverters directly themselves and they only get a 5-year warranty from SMA for string inverters instead of the 15-year warranty that SMA provides to contractors. It does make me wonder why there's such a big gap in warranty terms from SMA for end-consumers vs contractors.