Quoting our first system- NYS

[reagle]

We just received a quote from a local installer for a system. I'd appreciate feedback/comments before I pull the trigger!
I like the idea of integrated microinverter modules as it should help with partial shading and make wiring/installs much simpler. Higher efficiency shouldn't hurt either. This is in upstate NY.

22 SunPower SPR-240ACPV modules split over two roofs
Unirac mounts
5.28KW nominal
5.4kW actual annual usage
About 80% solar access before I get off my arse and have some trees trimmed

Installed cost: 24,2k
NYSERDA rebate to installer $6.864k (@$1.3 per Watt)
Total after rebate: $17.336k
NY Tax credit 25% $4.334k
Fed Tax credit (30%) off gross $7260
or
Fed Tax credit (30%) off net $5200.8

Total out of pocket cost: $5742 if I take fed credit off gross (and then pay taxes on those $6.8k from NYSERDA)
or about $8k if I take it after the rebate. Since NYSERDA does not appear to send 1099, I many not even have this option.

Either way I am under $1.6 per watt installed with essentially full usage offset and net metering

[bluewater]

We just received a quote from a local installer for a system. I'd appreciate feedback/comments before I pull the trigger!
I like the idea of integrated microinverter modules as it should help with partial shading and make wiring/installs much simpler. Higher efficiency shouldn't hurt either. This is in upstate NY.

22 SunPower SPR-240ACPV modules split over two roofs
Unirac mounts
5.28KW nominal
5.4kW actual annual usage
About 80% solar access before I get off my arse and have some trees trimmed

Installed cost: 24,2k
NYSERDA rebate to installer $6.864k (@$1.3 per Watt)
Total after rebate: $17.336k
NY Tax credit 25% $4.334k
Fed Tax credit (30%) off gross $7260
or
Fed Tax credit (30%) off net $5200.8

Total out of pocket cost: $5742 if I take fed credit off gross (and then pay taxes on those $6.8k from NYSERDA)
or about $8k if I take it after the rebate. Since NYSERDA does not appear to send 1099, I many not even have this option.

Either way I am under $1.6 per watt installed with essentially full usage offset and net metering

I'm looking at the same panels in AZ. 46 panels 11.04 kW DC for $36k before any rebates.

[SunEagle]

We just received a quote from a local installer for a system. I'd appreciate feedback/comments before I pull the trigger!
I like the idea of integrated microinverter modules as it should help with partial shading and make wiring/installs much simpler. Higher efficiency shouldn't hurt either. This is in upstate NY.

22 SunPower SPR-240ACPV modules split over two roofs
Unirac mounts
5.28KW nominal
5.4kW actual annual usage
About 80% solar access before I get off my arse and have some trees trimmed

Installed cost: 24,2k
NYSERDA rebate to installer $6.864k (@$1.3 per Watt)
Total after rebate: $17.336k
NY Tax credit 25% $4.334k
Fed Tax credit (30%) off gross $7260
or
Fed Tax credit (30%) off net $5200.8

Total out of pocket cost: $5742 if I take fed credit off gross (and then pay taxes on those $6.8k from NYSERDA)
or about $8k if I take it after the rebate. Since NYSERDA does not appear to send 1099, I many not even have this option.

Either way I am under $1.6 per watt installed with essentially full usage offset and net metering

I thought the 30% Fed Tax credit was determined after all other credits were subtracted. So that would get you a 30% tax credit on $13002 or about $3900.

That still gets you a pretty good final cost after all credits of $9100 which is about $1.72/w.

[reagle]

Looking through the Fed form, it only says:

"If you received a subsidy from a public utility for the
purchase or installation of an energy conservation
product and that subsidy was not included in your gross
income, you must reduce your cost for the
product by the amount of that subsidy before you compute your
credit. This rule also applies if a third party (such as a contractor)
receives the subsidy on your behalf."

So that appears to apply to NYSERDA part. I am not as clear on the state tax credit though.

[snic]

I'm also in New York. My installer insisted that the federal tax credit is on the gross system cost, not the cost net of the NYSERDA rebate. When I quoted him the passage about "If you received a subsidy from a public utility...", he said, "Yeah, but NYSERDA isn't a utility." But if you go digging through the actual laws in the US code, you can see pretty clearly that you should claim the credit based on the net cost. For the state tax credit, he projected it based on net cost.

A separate issue that I suspect many people miss: your bottom line seems to be a net cost of $8k. But remember that you're taking a NY state income tax credit of $4300. If you itemize deductions and normally deduct state income tax, that's $4300 that you won't be able to deduct. So you'll pay federal income taxes on it; depending on what your federal tax rate is, that's quite a hit --$1200 if you're in the 28% bracket. So your system net cost will be closer to $9k.

Anyway, I live in downstate NY, and am under contract for a smaller system (4.5 kW) for a similar cost. So it sounds like you're getting a good deal (although I think labor costs are probably a bit less upstate).

[reagle]

I agree. My installer claims he's been told by some officials that it should be off the gross amount. That wouldn't help us if we get audited of course.
Just thinking logically, your actual installed cost is the number after the NYSERDA rebate. Since you never really see the full cost, expecting the credit to be off that is a bit silly
Hmm, looks like you are also right on NYS credit being taxable. It's pretty obvious on schedule A, since state taxes will get reduced by the credit, there will be much less to deduct!
Not sure I like the direction this is going though- I was drawn to the idea of a system costing $5.5k installed, and am already almost double that
Of course how many of us are doing this for a quick payoff anyways?

I'm also in New York. My installer insisted that the federal tax credit is on the gross system cost, not the cost net of the NYSERDA rebate. When I quoted him the passage about "If you received a subsidy from a public utility...", he said, "Yeah, but NYSERDA isn't a utility." But if you go digging through the actual laws in the US code, you can see pretty clearly that you should claim the credit based on the net cost. For the state tax credit, he projected it based on net cost.

A separate issue that I suspect many people miss: your bottom line seems to be a net cost of $8k. But remember that you're taking a NY state income tax credit of $4300. If you itemize deductions and normally deduct state income tax, that's $4300 that you won't be able to deduct. So you'll pay federal income taxes on it; depending on what your federal tax rate is, that's quite a hit --$1200 if you're in the 28% bracket. So your system net cost will be closer to $9k.

Anyway, I live in downstate NY, and am under contract for a smaller system (4.5 kW) for a similar cost. So it sounds like you're getting a good deal (although I think labor costs are probably a bit less upstate).

[reagle]

On the issue of deduction- it appears it depends on how far you start from a standard deduction, when itemizing. I ran quick calculations and it just seems to push me towards the standard one- not a large difference.

[ajpslp]

I just locked in my system for NYC area. I researched it up and down and found a great company who has been doing solar for 11 plus years . If u want a great company and people who know the laws inside and out let me know i will PM info to u. I went with a lease system for the 36 panels of 335 all black for $133 a month !! almost free electric and that cuts my bill by 99%!!!

[russ]

I just locked in my system for NYC area. I researched it up and down and found a great company who has been doing solar for 11 plus years . If u want a great company and people who know the laws inside and out let me know i will PM info to u. I went with a lease system for the 36 panels of 335 all black for $133 a month !! almost free electric and that cuts my bill by 99%!!!

I have a bridge to sell if you are interested. You are saying you get a free system which ain't gonna happen.

Be very careful of companies making promises like this.

[inetdog]

I have a bridge to sell if you are interested. You are saying you get a free system which ain't gonna happen.

Be very careful of companies making promises like this.

They are not saying that the system is free. Just that the electricity is free once you have paid for it. Wait a minute, that did not come out right....

[ajpslp]

wasn't saying it was free , was saying its so cheap its almost like free, paying balanced budgest with con edison was $348 a month and now gonna be $133 , signed contract with sunpower and company has around 800 clients already up and running in NJ. Since NY just started this lease program in NY , business has begun booming for them.

[russ]

wasn't saying it was free , was saying its so cheap its almost like free, paying balanced budgest with con edison was $348 a month and now gonna be $133 , signed contract with sunpower and company has around 800 clients already up and running in NJ. Since NY just started this lease program in NY , business has begun booming for them.

It cut your bill but no quite by 99% as per your claim.

[ajpslp]

let me correct that post, it cut my con edison (local electric company) bill by 99 percent so i dont need to pay them anymore but added a bill of $133 to sun power so i am truly saving around 60%. Not bad for zero down and no increases for 20 plus years

[SunEagle]

let me correct that post, it cut my con edison (local electric company) bill by 99 percent so i dont need to pay them anymore but added a bill of $133 to sun power so i am truly saving around 60%. Not bad for zero down and no increases for 20 plus years

Ok. So you are getting a 12kw system at $133 per month. A 20 year lease would come to $2.65/watt and a 25 year lease brings it up to $3.31/watt.

Depending on what tariff ConEd is charging, you will still see some type of bill for meter connection and taxes. So if you only add a cost of only $15 per month to the $133 your $/w for even the 20 year lease starts to climb to $3/watt which is not a really good price.

[snic]

I agree. My installer claims he's been told by some officials that it should be off the gross amount. That wouldn't help us if we get audited of course.
Just thinking logically, your actual installed cost is the number after the NYSERDA rebate. Since you never really see the full cost, expecting the credit to be off that is a bit silly
Hmm, looks like you are also right on NYS credit being taxable. It's pretty obvious on schedule A, since state taxes will get reduced by the credit, there will be much less to deduct!
Not sure I like the direction this is going though- I was drawn to the idea of a system costing $5.5k installed, and am already almost double that
Of course how many of us are doing this for a quick payoff anyways?

Of course the payoff takes time... but if you're planning on staying in your house for longer than the time it takes to pay off the initial investment, the investment return is reasonable (and tax-free). I also went from the initial excitement of "wow, $5,500 for a solar system that will cover close to 100% of my electric usage" to "oh, now it's more like $9,000." But I still took the plunge. Even if we move before recouping that investment, I figure that buyers would find a solar system attractive - who doesn't like the idea of paying a large chunk of their electric bill with sunshine?