San Diego quote - feedback please

[foobar]

I'm in an SCE area with high increases therefore I started looking into solar. I received a quote that was initially looking at lease or prepaid lease so most of the numbers I have are based on those , however, I've decided to buy and the numbers are a bit fuzzy but here they are:

Currently monthly SCE bill ~$170/month
Annual electric usage == ~10200 kWh

8.00 kW DC Canadian Solar System with string inverter
Year 1 estimated production: ~10200 kWh

After all federal and sce incentives is out of pocket cash is ~$19k
Sorry for my lack of info I'm a total noob with this.

[foobar]

The inverter is Power One

[J.P.M.]

I'm in an SCE area with high increases therefore I started looking into solar. I received a quote that was initially looking at lease or prepaid lease so most of the numbers I have are based on those , however, I've decided to buy and the numbers are a bit fuzzy but here they are:

Currently monthly SCE bill ~$170/month
Annual electric usage == ~10200 kWh

8.00 kW DC Canadian Solar System with string inverter
Year 1 estimated production: ~10200 kWh

After all federal and sce incentives is out of pocket cash is ~$19k
Sorry for my lack of info I'm a total noob with this.

1.) If you're in San Diego co., you're w/SDG & E. If so, and if your bills are ~ $170/mo.the 09/01 rate increase will hit you up about 12-14% or so. Bad but not the "up to 40% "as some are claiming. Caveat Emptor.

2.) Depending on system orientation (azimuth, elevation, shading) , 10200 kWhrs. per year new from an 8kW system seems a bit low. Do you have such information to share ? My guess is that shading is not a big problem - if it were you'd be better off w/ micro inverters.

3.) That said, depending on your knowledge of the subject and situation, replacing your entire electric load may not be and probably isn't, IMHO cost effective. My experience has been that those of us who choose to replace their entire electric load most often do so for reasons that have little to do with economics. There are a lot of reasons to replace your entire load, but cost effectiveness is usually not one of them.

4.) The price /Watt (? about $3.40/watt from the vendor BEFORE fed. tax credit ?) seems about right, but the output /nameplate Kw (10200kWhrs/8kW ~1.28 kWhrs/yr/nameplate kW) seems low unless you're in a coastal area and face way off south in a grove of trees.

5.) I'd respectfully suggest, depending on your other conditions, you may want to consider getting several quotes from reputable vendors. Me experience is that more than a few vendors oversize systems by underestimating performance. Most consumers don't know the difference and go happily and ignorantly to the cleaners, paying extra money for oversized systems that are replacing the electricity that is at the lowest tier and thus the least expensive.

6.) congrads on deciding against leasing. If nothing else NOT leasing will leave you more options in the future.

J.P.M.

[foobar]

Hey JPM, thank you for responding to my thread. Here is more info in regards to your points:

1.) If you're in San Diego co., you're w/SDG & E. If so, and if your bills are ~ $170/mo.the 09/01 rate increase will hit you up about 12-14% or so. Bad but not the "up to 40% "as some are claiming.

I'm technically not in S.D. just north of but I put S.D. because most people don't know where Riverside County is. I am in SCE and the rate increases are in the 30-40% off the 2 top tiers.

2.) Depending on system orientation (azimuth, elevation, shading) , 10200 kWhrs. per year new from an 8kW system seems a bit low. Do you have such information to share ? My guess is that shading is not a big problem - if it were you'd be better off w/ micro inverters.

That's a good question, I'm basing this off the quote installer gave me I will revisit with them. I have a two story home with no shade at all. I think the 8kW number I gave was based on their original proposal (lease product) but when I told them I'm interested in purchase they may have revised this to a few less panels. I think it's actually a 7.4kW system now so I apologize for the initial mis-information.

3.) That said, depending on your knowledge of the subject and situation, replacing your entire electric load may not be and probably isn't, IMHO cost effective. My experience has been that those of us who choose to replace their entire electric load most often do so for reasons that have little to do with economics. There are a lot of reasons to replace your entire load, but cost effectiveness is usually not one of them.

My load is based on the past year which I consider very frugal. The reason i want 100% load is to cover that very frugal consumption because I know this coming year i want to be more conservative and be able to be more comfortable with the A/C on more often. Therefore I know the next coming years will be above the past year's 100% consumption and yet plan on the increased usage to not going above Tier 2.

With that new information, do you feel that I'm not getting a good deal on this quote? I most certainly going to do some more shopping but at least if I have this is a "bad" or "good" baseline I know what to look for.

[J.P.M.]

Hey JPM, thank you for responding to my thread. Here is more info in regards to your points:


I'm technically not in S.D. just north of but I put S.D. because most people don't know where Riverside County is. I am in SCE and the rate increases are in the 30-40% off the 2 top tiers.
That's a good question, I'm basing this off the quote installer gave me I will revisit with them. I have a two story home with no shade at all. I think the 8kW number I gave was based on their original proposal (lease product) but when I told them I'm interested in purchase they may have revised this to a few less panels. I think it's actually a 7.4kW system now so I apologize for the initial mis-information.

My load is based on the past year which I consider very frugal. The reason i want 100% load is to cover that very frugal consumption because I know this coming year i want to be more conservative and be able to be more comfortable with the A/C on more often. Therefore I know the next coming years will be above the past year's 100% consumption and yet plan on the increased usage to not going above Tier 2.

With that new information, do you feel that I'm not getting a good deal on this quote? I most certainly going to do some more shopping but at least if I have this is a "bad" or "good" baseline I know what to look for.

I just sent a long reply to this post and it blew me out. Can anyone tell me what I'm doing wrong. This has happened 3 or 4 times now and it's not much fun.

J.P.M.

[russ]

I just sent a long reply to this post and it blew me out. Can anyone tell me what I'm doing wrong. This has happened 3 or 4 times now and it's not much fun.

J.P.M.

Sorry I can't tell you but what I do for anything complicated or long is to type it in notepad and then copy it over.

[J.P.M.]

I'm in an SCE area with high increases therefore I started looking into solar. I received a quote that was initially looking at lease or prepaid lease so most of the numbers I have are based on those , however, I've decided to buy and the numbers are a bit fuzzy but here they are:

Currently monthly SCE bill ~$170/month
Annual electric usage == ~10200 kWh

8.00 kW DC Canadian Solar System with string inverter
Year 1 estimated production: ~10200 kWh

After all federal and sce incentives is out of pocket cash is ~$19k
Sorry for my lack of info I'm a total noob with this.

OK, short & sweet-

1.) Get quotes from reliable vendors who have been around a while. 3 or 4 ought to do it. KEEP NOTES.

2.) Get informed. Do your own homework. It's probably the single best way to have the best chance of not getting taken to the cleaners. Get your own answers. Know the answers to your questions before you ask. Question everything everyone says - even me. Do not rely on people with a financial stake (read vendors) for objective answers - its like asking a bugler to help you inventory your house. And, don't put too much stock in the opinions of neighbors and friends. They likely know about as much as you about something you're considering spending thousands on.

3.) Conservation first. You'll save $$'s immediately and any solar equipment will be smaller and less expensive.

4.) Don't pay more than about $3.60 - $3.75/nameplate Watt to any vendor for a non Sunpower system. Don't pay more than $4.50/nameplate Watt for a Sunpower system. Sunpower may be better quality (yet to be demonstrated to me at least), but I'm not sure it's worth a 20% $$ premimum. The Sunpower efficiency claims are a red herring and IMHO, less than the whole story. Sounds like you've got a large area anyway.

Good Luck,

J.P.M.

[russ]

OK, short & sweet-

1.) Get quotes from reliable vendors who have been around a while. 3 or 4 ought to do it. KEEP NOTES.

2.) Get informed. Do your own homework. It's probably the single best way to have the best chance of not getting taken to the cleaners. Get your own answers. Know the answers to your questions before you ask. Question everything everyone says - even me. Do not rely on people with a financial stake (read vendors) for objective answers - its like asking a bugler to help you inventory your house. And, don't put too much stock in the opinions of neighbors and friends. They likely know about as much as you about something you're considering spending thousands on.

3.) Conservation first. You'll save $$'s immediately and any solar equipment will be smaller and less expensive.

4.) Don't pay more than about $3.60 - $3.75/nameplate Watt to any vendor for a non Sunpower system. Don't pay more than $4.50/nameplate Watt for a Sunpower system. Sunpower may be better quality (yet to be demonstrated to me at least), but I'm not sure it's worth a 20% $$ premimum. The Sunpower efficiency claims are a red herring and IMHO, less than the whole story. Sounds like you've got a large area anyway.

Good Luck,

J.P.M.

All perfectly good advice. Regarding prices others tell you - I have known people that would lie about prices just for fun and to try to make themselves look smart - only believe receipts for the great prices.

[J.P.M.]

All perfectly good advice. Regarding prices others tell you - I have known people that would lie about prices just for fun and to try to make themselves look smart - only believe receipts for the great prices.

Thank you for your concurrance.

If you're suggesting I may be inventing prices: I've got a signed contract for my install to hopefully begin 10/02/2013 for 16 S.P. 327's, a 5kW S.P. inverter. Cash price $4.50/Nameplate Watt - CSI # SD-CSI-17646. Also, I've seen, as part of the HOA Arch . Rev. Comm. around here a job w/30 Kyocera 245's w/ Enphase inverters, For $3.77/Nameplate Watt. That was sold 07/06 but hasn't shown up on the CSI data yet. (??) My suspicion is, from dealing with neighbors involved with that vendor that something may be amiss with that vendor's veracity with respect to what's happening w/ CSI rebate. The homeowner was unaware of the wait list until I advised them. This is one of many installs I've seen recently and tracked as the HOA nazi who reviews solar jobs for the HOA around here. Recently, I've seen quotes for $3.40/Watt for LG's, $3.64 for LG's, $3.97 for REC and lots of others, including $5.30/Watt for S.P 345's. on the high end. Been at it for 7 years now. I think I understand what you mean about embellishing facts. That's one reason why I suggest people question everything everyone says - even me. Within the limits of confidentiality I can document what I say.

J.P.M.

[russ]

If you're suggesting I may be inventing prices:

Not at all - those prices fall into line but some by others are a bit wild.

I used to work with a guy that would always say he paid less than he did. He 1) didn't want to look bad and 2) wanted to make the other guy wonder how he managed the low price.

Where I grew up in Oregon farmers paid their annual water bill according to production. Most lied about how well they did - reporting better than actual because they didn't want the neighbors to realize what a mess they made of things - thereby paying more than necessary.

[silversaver]

All perfectly good advice. Regarding prices others tell you - I have known people that would lie about prices just for fun and to try to make themselves look smart - only believe receipts for the great prices.

Thank you for your concurrance.

If you're suggesting I may be inventing prices: I've got a signed contract for my install to hopefully begin 10/02/2013 for 16 S.P. 327's, a 5kW S.P. inverter. Cash price $4.50/Nameplate Watt - CSI # SD-CSI-17646. Also, I've seen, as part of the HOA Arch . Rev. Comm. around here a job w/30 Kyocera 245's w/ Enphase inverters, For $3.77/Nameplate Watt. That was sold 07/06 but hasn't shown up on the CSI data yet. (??) My suspicion is, from dealing with neighbors involved with that vendor that something may be amiss with that vendor's veracity with respect to what's happening w/ CSI rebate. The homeowner was unaware of the wait list until I advised them. This is one of many installs I've seen recently and tracked as the HOA nazi who reviews solar jobs for the HOA around here. Recently, I've seen quotes for $3.40/Watt for LG's, $3.64 for LG's, $3.97 for REC and lots of others, including $5.30/Watt for S.P 345's. on the high end. Been at it for 7 years now. I think I understand what you mean about embellishing facts. That's one reason why I suggest people question everything everyone says - even me. Within the limits of confidentiality I can document what I say.

J.P.M.

Nicely done J.P.M.

Here is my CSI: SCE-CSI-60810. For SunPower @ $4.5/DC Watt is really good. Too bad that is little too high for my budget. I have save my money on Bosch $2.84/DC Watt cash deal. I usually trust people unless the information I received is way off norm.

[russ]

I usually trust people unless the information I received is way off norm.

I have spent too many years in Asia for that!

[vasans]

Huh; Snip from my contract; I personally knew few folks got similar deal like mine; ($3.62/KW) before fed.

Rcpt.jpg

All perfectly good advice. Regarding prices others tell you - I have known people that would lie about prices just for fun and to try to make themselves look smart - only believe receipts for the great prices.

[vasans]

Silver, of course I can vouch for the deal you got - one of the lowest ever I've ever heard but it happened Nothing to fake here.

Nicely done J.P.M.

Here is my CSI: SCE-CSI-60810. For SunPower @ $4.5/DC Watt is really good. Too bad that is little too high for my budget. I have save my money on Bosch $2.84/DC Watt cash deal. I usually trust people unless the information I received is way off norm.

[foobar]

Huh; Snip from my contract; I personally knew few folks got similar deal like mine; ($3.62/KW) before fed.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]3165[/ATTACH]

Vasans, can you PM me your installer so that I can get a quote?