Our Quote

[Dugknight]

Ok, I was a little hesitant to post, but I guess it couldn't hurt. Might learn a thing or two from all you knowledgeable people.

Here's the system we were quoted, and I'm thinking about asking for an small increase in size.

Purchase:
4.41 kW DC
6,780 kWh Annual Production
System Cost - $20,556
Out of Pocket - $19,805 (after local rebates)
Net Cost - $13,864 (After federal credit)

20 Yr Lease w/ $1,000 down:
4.41 kW DC
6,780 kWh Annual Production
No Escalator
Monthly Payment - $104
20¢/kW

20 Yr Lease Prepay:
4.41 kW DC
6,780 kWh Annual Production
Up Front Payment - $11,820
No monthly and no escalators.
9.1¢/kW

20 Yr Lease w/ $0 down
4.41 kW DC
6,780 kWh Annual Production
Escalator - 2.9%
Monthly Payment - $93
16.4¢/kW

Did I miss anything? Thanks.

[silversaver]

What panels are they using? inverter? Unless they are SunPower panels, the price is on the high side.

[Dugknight]

Feedback on brands

This might be troubling...when I emailed and asked, he responded saying that what mattered most was the kWh production, annually and lifetime (which they do guarantee). Is that true or is the brand really important? He said they use different brands, but said the inverter would either be SMA or PowerOne and the panels would be Trina, Yingli, or Kyocera. Thanks!

[russ]

This might be troubling...when I emailed and asked, he responded saying that what mattered most was the kWh production, annually and lifetime (which they do guarantee). Is that true or is the brand really important? He said they use different brands, but said the inverter would either be SMA or PowerOne and the panels would be Trina, Yingli, or Kyocera. Thanks!

You seem to be dealing with a fast talking shyster that wants to keep his options open - run away from him and to someone not full of BS.

[Ian S]

This might be troubling...when I emailed and asked, he responded saying that what mattered most was the kWh production, annually and lifetime (which they do guarantee). Is that true or is the brand really important? He said they use different brands, but said the inverter would either be SMA or PowerOne and the panels would be Trina, Yingli, or Kyocera. Thanks!

You'd be wise to get more quotes. If you decide to lease, I'd avoid any escalators. If the company is someone like SolarCity who specializes in leasing, then their purchases prices are usually a bit on the high side since they'd really rather you leased.

[vasans]

That is true to some extent. When you lease it does not matter what goes there because the production is guaranteed. If you decided to buy then you should ask about the equipment you're going to own. With the purchase option quoted, it comes to $4.66 a watt (before rebates/concessions). If you spend few hrs reading the posts here you will see folks paid around $3.5-4.0 (per watt DC) for systems sized above 6 and $4-5.0 for smaller sized systems on cash buys.

I wont feel terribly bad with the cash quote as all the listed panels & inverted stuff below are good ones - although I will armtwist that guy and squeeze more. You can't just ask for it without numbers to back it up. Just tell that you know people pay $4 a watt and why you should pay $4.66 and see what happens.

On the other hand, prepaid also looks good to me

This might be troubling...when I emailed and asked, he responded saying that what mattered most was the kWh production, annually and lifetime (which they do guarantee). Is that true or is the brand really important? He said they use different brands, but said the inverter would either be SMA or PowerOne and the panels would be Trina, Yingli, or Kyocera. Thanks!

[Dugknight]

You seem to be dealing with a fast talking shyster that wants to keep his options open - run away from him and to someone not full of BS.

Russ, I don't think he's so much a fast talking shyster, I just think he works for a big corporate company and he really probably doesn't know yet. He's actually a very cool guy and I do trust him. No high power sales tactics and pretty down to earth.

So does everybody agree that with a lease, the brand isn't as important than if you were buying the equipment? I do like the fact that they guarantee the kWh.

Thanks.

[Dugknight]

Equipment

OK, I got the information back that I asked for:

Inverter Label Qty Breaker Amps Rated AC Power Rated AC Voltage Efficiency
Power-One:PVI-4.2-OUTD-S-US (240 V) A 1 25 4.200 kW 240 V 96.0 %

Module STCWatts PTCWatts Qty (Photon Magazine top 5 panel in shoot out)
Yingli Energy (China): YL245P-29b 245 221.6 18

Mike

[vasans]

These are good stuff; Now focus on the getting the price down.

OK, I got the information back that I asked for:

Inverter Label Qty Breaker Amps Rated AC Power Rated AC Voltage Efficiency
Power-One:PVI-4.2-OUTD-S-US (240 V) A 1 25 4.200 kW 240 V 96.0 %

Module STCWatts PTCWatts Qty (Photon Magazine top 5 panel in shoot out)
Yingli Energy (China): YL245P-29b 245 221.6 18

Mike

[Ian S]

So does everybody agree that with a lease, the brand isn't as important than if you were buying the equipment? I do like the fact that they guarantee the kWh.

Thanks.

I think most if not all leases have a production guarantee. Typically the guarantee is very conservative so there is little chance of a payout. Then there is the payout itself: it could be as little as a few cents per kWh that the system is short. It may also take into consideration whether or not the system has overproduced at some point and add that into the mix to offset any subsequent shortfall.

If you are considering leasing, you should insist on getting a copy of the lease you'd be signing before you make a commitment. Read it through carefully and make sure you understand all the details of each party's responsibilities (e.g. insuring the panels). Make sure you are comfortable with what happens at the lease end and give thought to how you'll make the lease terms look attractive to anyone who might want to buy your house before lease end since you'll have to convince them to take over the lease payments. Obviously the latter wouldn't apply to the prepaid lease. It looks like you'd save a couple of grand on the prepaid vs the outright buy. Only you can decide which is better for you. The lease should cover all maintenance and repair - including an inverter replacement - for the term of the lease. The lease also relieves you of the hassle of applying for and waiting for rebates and tax credits. However, many folks just prefer to own their systems outright and avoid having someone else involved. That way it's easier to make changes later on. Changes will be difficult if not impossible with a leased system.

I noticed you were considering a slightly larger system. You may want to give that a bit more thought: it will really depend on your household use and whether you want to offset most or all your usage or just the top tier(s). A larger system ought to cost a bit less per watt.

[Ian S]

Another thing to consider is the condition of your roof. You do not want to be replacing the roof a year or two after solar installation as removal and replacement of the panels will add significant cost. Better to get a questionable roof in shape before the panels go on. Preferably coordinated with panel installation.

[Dugknight]

Thanks Ian. That's great info. I do have a full copy of the lease and am looking it over. So far it seems good. It's through Solar City, if that really matters. I'm sure most of you pros probably figured that out already. They say they'll take care of any defective equipment, including the inverter, if it is defective.

One thing about the lease that I like is that they'll remove it if we want them to after the 20 yrs. With a purchase, once we wanted to get rid of it (after who knows how many years), it would then be removed at our expense. I guess if we then decided to purchase again or start a lease with better equipment, we could probably get the company to remove it for us, but you never know.

I'm all about low-maintenance and taking the easy road, even if paying a little extra.

I'm having a difficult time sizing though. I just don't realistically know how much power we'll be using going forward. We can charge both our Volt and the Rav4 EV at work so it's hard to guage how often we'll need to charge at home.

[Dugknight]

Another thing to consider is the condition of your roof. You do not want to be replacing the roof a year or two after solar installation as removal and replacement of the panels will add significant cost. Better to get a questionable roof in shape before the panels go on. Preferably coordinated with panel installation.

We have a fairly new presidential 50 yr roof on there so we should be good there! Thanks.

[russ]

That is true to some extent. When you lease it does not matter what goes there because the production is guaranteed. If you decided to buy then you should ask about the equipment you're going to own. With the purchase option quoted, it comes to $4.66 a watt (before rebates/concessions). If you spend few hrs reading the posts here you will see folks paid around $3.5-4.0 (per watt DC) for systems sized above 6 and $4-5.0 for smaller sized systems on cash buys.

I wont feel terribly bad with the cash quote as all the listed panels & inverted stuff below are good ones - although I will armtwist that guy and squeeze more. You can't just ask for it without numbers to back it up. Just tell that you know people pay $4 a watt and why you should pay $4.66 and see what happens.

On the other hand, prepaid also looks good to me

I have a bridge for sale to people with your attitude! If you don't care what they put on your roof and they go under is 5 years then have fun.

[Dugknight]

I have a bridge for sale to people with your attitude! If you don't care what they put on your roof and they go under is 5 years then have fun.

If they went under at least you wouldn't have to keep paying them for the lease, right? Unless they sold your system to another company and they assumed the lease contract. Then I'd think you'd be protected.