Is this a good deal?

[jlgarza15]

Hello, I am new to this forum. Yesterday I received a quote for solar. I am looking to buy. My 12 month average bill is about $160.00 and my monthly kWh usage is about 850

I was quoted $16,999 for a 4.5kW roof top system. This includes 18 Canadian Solar panels and a SMA inverter (SMA America SB5000US). I could pay 18,000 for the same panels with enphase microinverters (M215-60-2LL-S22) and Envoy Monitoring included. I do not have shading issues and have a south facing roof in Bakersfield, CA.

I can also get a 3.0kW system for $10,999 with 12 Canadian Solar panels (CS6P-250P) and a SMA inverter (SMA SB3000US).
$12,808 with the enphase setup

These prices are the installed price before the federal tax credit.

I am not sure what option to go with. My wife and I are young and are just starting our family. 4.5 seems like overkill, but as our family grows we will likely consume more power. We do not plan on moving. Any feedback would be greatly appreciated!

[jlgarza15]

I forgot to mention that I am a PG&E customer. I don't understand E6 Time of use monitoring, but my understanding is that the 3kW system might be all I need.

[HBJoe3]

Just one Quote?

I was quoted $16,999 for a 4.5kW roof top system. This includes 18 Canadian Solar panels and a SMA inverter (SMA America SB5000US). I could pay 18,000 for the same panels with enphase microinverters (M215-60-2LL-S22) and Envoy Monitoring included. I do not have shading issues and have a south facing roof in Bakersfield, CA.
!

jlgarza,

How many quotes have you gotten? Which panels did they say they would use? I use about 750kwh/mo and I am going with a 4.25kW system which I think is big enough for my needs, even though my usage will increase now the I am plugging in a Volt.

[jlgarza15]

jlgarza,

How many quotes have you gotten? Which panels did they say they would use? I use about 750kwh/mo and I am going with a 4.25kW system which I think is big enough for my needs, even though my usage will increase now the I am plugging in a Volt.

I got a quote from a local outfit that charges a flat rate of $4.40 a watt installed. That company uses upsolar panels (UP-M240P) and the enphase set up.

I am still waiting for a quote from REC

I think I'll go with the 4.5kW system. I'm just debating to with the SMA Sunny Boy for $3.77 a watt installed or the Enphase M215 w/ Envoy monitoring for $4.00 a watt.

[PenguinSolar]

I forgot to mention that I am a PG&E customer. I don't understand E6 Time of use monitoring, but my understanding is that the 3kW system might be all I need.

There's a recent discussion on TOU metering you should check out: http://www.solarpaneltalk.com/showth...edits-with-SCE

In general for CA (specifically SCE but think PG&E is similar) you have tiers based mainly on volume and time of use is based mainly on when.

You really need to do your own math and usage patterns to see what rate plan works best.

Theoretically you could go with a smaller size KW system with a Time of Use plan that would be equivalent to a larger KW system using tiers but ONLY in the right conditions:

TOU is better when:
1) During peak time you generate more energy than you use
2) Mainly use energy at night
3) Majority of people are out during the day (so low usage)

Doesn't really work if you have stay at home or work from home situations.

The reason why you possibly can get away with a lower sized system is that you'll be generating energy credits at a much higher amount during the day and at night buying at a much lower rate.

Mainly use your energy outside of 10am-6pm (this is for SCE). You may find this doc useful although PG&E should also have something: https://www.sce.com/wps/wcm/connect/...df?MOD=AJPERES

See last page.

In conclusion if you have a situation where you can take advantage of a Net metering TOU plan you can possibly size smaller which will lower your costs and still zero out your bill and increase your ROI.

SCE (not sure about PG&E) has pretty good tools online where you can see your actual hourly usage per day. That can give you an idea on your usage patterns and if TOU makes sense.

The math gets messy which is why most installers just show tiers scenario.

If you fit or can change your behavior to benefit TOU plan than you can probably get away with a 10%-15% smaller size system then if you design for tiers.

You just really need to make sure you're over-generating during those peak hours otherwise your bill will skyrocket as peak is really high like in the 25c to 27c range.

So proper sizing is IMPORTANT.

[jlgarza15]

Thanks PenguinSolar! That was a lot of useful information. After reviewing everything I don't think that TOU metering will help my wife and I much. We will go with a 4.5kW system. Any thoughts on the setups I mentioned?

[jlgarza15]

Ok, I just received my bid from REC Solar
I can get a 5kW System for $17,500 before the Tax Rebate ($3.50 a watt!)

This includes:
20 either Yingli 250W or REC 255 Watt panels
Power One 4.2 kW inverter
Monitoring free if I go with Yingli or $600.00 if I go with REC Panels

Any input on which system I should go with now?

[HBJoe3]

SCE Ending the Residential Plan?

PenguinSolar,

One of the companies I talked to said that SCE will move everyone to TOU plans in 2016. Have you heard that?

[jlgarza15]

One of the contractors said the rumor is that PG&E will switching everyone to TOU metering in the next few years which is why they are installing smart meters.

[jlgarza15]

Ok, I just received my bid from REC Solar
I can get a 5kW System for $17,500 before the Tax Rebate ($3.50 a watt!)

This includes:
20 either Yingli 250W or REC 255 Watt panels
Power One 4.2 kW inverter
Monitoring free if I go with Yingli or $600.00 if I go with REC Panels

Any input on which system I should go with now?

REC just called me back and told me they made a mistake, the $17,500 is for a 4.5 kW system...$18,500 for a 5kW system with Yingli panels

[SunEagle]

use solar and live green life

Christina

Please do some research on what is a "green life". While I am in full support of solar pv systems I understand what it takes to produce the panels, inverters and batteries that are being used. A lot of CO2 is produce in the manufacturing of these items so there is nothing "green" about solar.

I also know that during the day the pv systems can provide power but if there is any type of clouds the Utility will need to cover those homes that use pv panels. The Utility also provides power to those home at night. All that electricity will more than likely come from fossil fuel burning generating stations.

So when you make the statement to "use solar and live a green life" you are just babbling BS and do not really understand what a "green life" is.

The only way to be "green" is to use very very little electricity during the day when the sun shines and use no electricity at night. That is as close to being "green" as you can get.

[FloridaSun]

Christina
The only way to be "green" is to use very very little electricity during the day when the sun shines and use no electricity at night. That is as close to being "green" as you can get.

A 'greener' way, reduce consumption.

[SunEagle]

A 'greener' way, reduce consumption.

We should all go back to burning lumps of coal and making our own candles.

[FloridaSun]

We should all go back to burning lumps of coal and making our own candles.

haha, wonder if anyone has ever done a study on how 'green' candles are.

[PenguinSolar]

Damn!

Really think I have a SoCal premium here. From the same vendor got:
18x YL 245 w/ Frunious inverter for $20690 (CEC-AC KW 4.41) or $5.43/w-AC or $4.69/w-DC
18x REC 255 Blk w/ Frunious inverter for $20990 (CEC-AC KE 4.59) or $5.32/w-AC or $4.57/w-DC

Maybe should move up to NorCal .

Maybe our panels are still inflated cause we still have step 10 left whereas think PG&E is all out so less people buying.

When I checked the CSI panel list the PTC/STC rating seemed better for yingli this might be because the REC is black on black so you're trading looks for performance. But you also need to factor back in price per watt. Remember the warranties are pretty similar: 97% year one and then .7% linear till the end with at least 80% at the end.

Qs:
What inverters are you using?
What monitoring are they providing, you can also get a kit off amazon for $200 to also monitor and upload your stats if you DIY.
Spec wise they are close so comes down to:
Do you care about looks? If yes then REC
Do you care about made in Europe vs made in China?
Are you a soccer/football fan? If yes than go European!

Good luck! Get more bids and you can get a sense of what's the going rate. Can also use the CA stat tool:

http://www.californiasolarstatistics.ca.gov/search/contractor/

Stick in your zip and on the last column you will see $/watt and then start contacting them . This can also give you an idea of the going price for your area as you can see prices vary per region (sigh).

Well at least we get the beach, maybe it's beach tax!

Ok, I just received my bid from REC Solar
I can get a 5kW System for $17,500 before the Tax Rebate ($3.50 a watt!)

This includes:
20 either Yingli 250W or REC 255 Watt panels
Power One 4.2 kW inverter
Monitoring free if I go with Yingli or $600.00 if I go with REC Panels

Any input on which system I should go with now?