Chinese Panels vs SunPower Panels Bids

[PenguinSolar]

Okay got the following bids for OC/SoCal area and looking for thoughts/opinions.

Bid #1:
Size: Sunpower 3.27KW
Panels: 10x SPR327 (PTC: 301.4)
Inverter: 1x PowerOne 3000 (91%)
CEC-AC Rating: 2.743KW
Annual KWh: 4342
Cost: $17,658
CSI Rebate: $511
30% Tax Credit: $5297.40
Net: $11,849.60
$/Watt (Gross): $6.44
$/Watt (Net): $4.32

Bid #2:
Size: Talesun 3.43KW
Panels: 14x TP660P-245 (PTC: 220.8)
Inverter: Kaco 3502xi (95.5%)
CEC-AC Rating: 2.952KW
Annual KWh: 4753
Cost: $15435
CSI Rebate: $550
30% Tax Credit: $4630.50
Net: $10,254.50
$/Watt (Gross): $5.23
$/Watt (Net): $3.47

Bid #3:
Size: SMX 3.5KW
Panels: 14x SMX250P (PTC: 220.28*)
Inverters (Micro): Enphase 215 (96%)
CEC-AC Rating: 2.961KW
Annual KWh: 4766*
Cost: $16800
CSI Rebate: $552
30% Tax Credit: $5040
Net: $11,208.43
$/Watt (Gross): $5.67
$/Watt (Net): $3.79

*Estimated the PTC based on the other SMX model PTC, SMX250 is awaiting approval for CSI since it's fairly new.

$/Watt is using the CEC-AC Rating as that will truly level the playing field.

Since the system are on the small size, expect the $/Watt be higher. The CEC-AC Ratings all calc off the CSI calculators. I ignored the sales estimates as they tend to inflate them for "ideal" conditions.

Have another SunPower dealer speaking with tomorrow so will see what package/equipment they will put together.

My goal is to get <$4/Watt (NET including all incentives), not sure if I can get that with SunPower.

Thanks for the feedback!

[PenguinSolar]

On the SunPower it's for the cheaper E20s, going to see how much more to go to the X20 to get better efficiency (PTC: 308.1 vs 301.4) if it's worth the increased cost.

Any reason to avoid the E-series all together?

Bid #1:
Size: Sunpower 3.27KW
Panels: 10x SPR327 (PTC: 301.4)
Inverter: 1x PowerOne 3000 (91%)
CEC-AC Rating: 2.743KW
Annual KWh: 4342
Cost: $17,658
CSI Rebate: $511
30% Tax Credit: $5297.40
Net: $11,849.60
$/Watt (Gross): $6.44
$/Watt (Net): $4.32

[Ionizer]

On the SunPower it's for the cheaper E20s, going to see how much more to go to the X20 to get better efficiency (PTC: 308.1 vs 301.4) if it's worth the increased cost.

Any reason to avoid the E-series all together?

Id stay away from the x20's, pretty dated. But the x21's are the newest and most efficient out. Nothing wrong with e20's, though all the quotes I got told me that the x21's and e'20 are about the same price per watt. Difference: E20' are easier for smaller dealers to get. And the x21's are slightly more efficient and have a little higher wattage per panel.

[PenguinSolar]

Id stay away from the x20's, pretty dated. But the x21's are the newest and most efficient out. Nothing wrong with e20's, though all the quotes I got told me that the x21's and e'20 are about the same price per watt. Difference: E20' are easier for smaller dealers to get. And the x21's are slightly more efficient and have a little higher wattage per panel.

Are the warranty the same? I saw a data sheet on the e20 that showed the 10/20 warranty but maybe that was old? Are all SP panels now 25/25 (production/product)?

[PenguinSolar]

Got two more bids:

Bid #5:
(18x) YingLi (YL245P-29b)
(1x) Power-One (PVI-4.2-OUTD-S-US)
CEC-AC KW: 3.829248
Gross Cost: $21609
Net Cost: $14,639.90
Gross $/Watt: $5.64
New $/Watt: $3.82

Bid #6:
(16x) Canadian Solar (CS6P-250P)
(1x) Power-One (PVI-3.6-OUTD-S-US)
CEC-AC KW: 3.495936
Gross Cost: $14799
Net Cost: $9,903.60
Gross $/Watt: $4.23
Net $/Watt: $2.83

I knew that Chinese panels would be cheaper but surprised that Canadian Solar is cheaper than some of the other lesser known panels like SMX Capital and TaleSun. From these forums seems the top tier Chinese panels (if you go Chinese) are Canadian Solar, Yingli, and Trina.

I don't know at these prices really makes the premium on SP really high. The other issue is since I'm pricing out such a small system I'm not getting the lower $/watt advantage you would normally see in higher systems. Some of the installers fixed cost are making the $/Watt a bit high.

[Ian S]

So how come I can't find the "Hyper X" panel manufacturer's website?

[russ]

So how come I can't find the "Hyper X" panel manufacturer's website?

Good point Ian - sounds like a lot of BS

[Ian S]

Good point Ian - sounds like a lot of BS

Indeed! What you do find is a lot of claims all over the internet and all strikingly similar to Mr Boggs' comment. Oh yeah and videos too.

[Naptown]

Nice ad for a kit
How about putting the module spec sheet on the web ad. It was noticeably missing.
And the cost for the kit didn't as far as I could see include shipping, permit or installation, so how can you compare the cost to a Sunpower system which is only sold as a turnkey system?

[greenHouse]

Just a thought -- unless you are pinched for space, efficiency doesn't matter. A 250 watt 15% efficiency module makes as many watts as a 250 watt 20% efficiency module. When I was thinking about putting up a 2kW array facing west, I was going to use "whatever I could get". The only reason I'm thinking about going with SunPower is because I think I may up that to 3kW. They make great modules, but I've got east and west facing roof to spare.

[PenguinSolar]

Just a thought -- unless you are pinched for space, efficiency doesn't matter. A 250 watt 15% efficiency module makes as many watts as a 250 watt 20% efficiency module. When I was thinking about putting up a 2kW array facing west, I was going to use "whatever I could get". The only reason I'm thinking about going with SunPower is because I think I may up that to 3kW. They make great modules, but I've got east and west facing roof to spare.

True the only potential con is that the extra panels requires more mounting and holes in your roof. So just some additional potential risk. But on the flip side you'll have more covering on your roof which will make your attic more cooler .

Since my first post I'm in the process of getting a 4.2KW-DC system installed for $14k (Sharp Black 235). Gross is around $3.31/W-DC (before incentives) which not bad for my SoCal region for a decent brand with the SMA that has the emergency outlet plug (so I can charge my iphone from my panels when the grid goes down --- you know have to stay online to check SPT threads ).

My big issue is dealing with the HOA and City Permits which seem to be really picky on how far the set backs need to be from the roof-line plus they only allow black no silver frames ;(.

We signed in Sept and at this point not holding my breath if it'll even happen THIS year -- argh.

[silversaver]

True the only potential con is that the extra panels requires more mounting and holes in your roof. So just some additional potential risk. But on the flip side you'll have more covering on your roof which will make your attic more cooler .

Since my first post I'm in the process of getting a 4.2KW-DC system installed for $14k (Sharp Black 235). Gross is around $3.31/W-DC (before incentives) which not bad for my SoCal region for a decent brand with the SMA that has the emergency outlet plug (so I can charge my iphone from my panels when the grid goes down --- you know have to stay online to check SPT threads ).

My big issue is dealing with the HOA and City Permits which seem to be really picky on how far the set backs need to be from the roof-line plus they only allow black no silver frames ;(.

We signed in Sept and at this point not holding my breath if it'll even happen THIS year -- argh.

I was wondering how your system goes. My system is up and just passed city inspection today after few re-schedules, yeah finally.... I signed in Aug.....

I thought you got the Aleo? but hey, Sharp is really good too.

by the way, the answer is 3 ft. Good luck.

[greenHouse]

True the only potential con is that the extra panels requires more mounting and holes in your roof. So just some additional potential risk. But on the flip side you'll have more covering on your roof which will make your attic more cooler .

Since my first post I'm in the process of getting a 4.2KW-DC system installed for $14k (Sharp Black 235). Gross is around $3.31/W-DC (before incentives) which not bad for my SoCal region for a decent brand with the SMA that has the emergency outlet plug (so I can charge my iphone from my panels when the grid goes down --- you know have to stay online to check SPT threads ).

My big issue is dealing with the HOA and City Permits which seem to be really picky on how far the set backs need to be from the roof-line plus they only allow black no silver frames ;(.

We signed in Sept and at this point not holding my breath if it'll even happen THIS year -- argh.

Just remember -- that emergency outlet only works for very small loads, and only works during the day, when you're at the office

GO BATTERIES!!!

[Naptown]

Just remember -- that emergency outlet only works for very small loads, and only works during the day, when you're at the office

GO BATTERIES!!!

but produces enough to run a battery charger for night time use

[PenguinSolar]

I was wondering how your system goes. My system is up and just passed city inspection today after few re-schedules, yeah finally.... I signed in Aug.....

I thought you got the Aleo? but hey, Sharp is really good too.

by the way, the answer is 3 ft. Good luck.

Yeah that was somewhat complicated as I bought Aleo and they ran out, so they swapped with Bosch but the Bosch is not all black which was denied by HOA. To Sllvn's credit they made good where they honored their original price and offered up the all black sharp replacement panels.

At this point not that picky between German vs Japansese. More concern that my elec bill is starting to spike cause we're running the heater and holiday lights now. Plus no summer savings program, went from $7 a month (that's w/ the summer rebate) to now over $100! (Argh). So would be really nice to be able to lower my bill. Also wanted to get the purchase in for the tax credit to apply this year, we'll see. It's holiday time so everyone has shopping on the brain and nothing is moving especially the city govt and HOA.

Did you already get the permission to operate from the utility and on the grid? Congrats!!! What output are you seeing?