One last look before we sign for Sunpower system

[Naptown]

Figure your difference also after federal credit. The net out of pocket will be more like 20% difference
Also generally we calculate costs using the gross system cost divided by nameplate DC watts.
Using the CEC ratings confuses things for most here since they are not in Ca.
With E-20's at three weeks lead it might be right for this year.

Also keep in mind that the Sunpower modules with lower temperature coefficients and lower degradation will produce more over their lifetime.

From the output numbers you showed either the Sunpower system is sandbagging the output or the other is padding a bit. But only having the AC numbers it is hard to tell
What is the wattage on the others

[bando]

Figure your difference also after federal credit. The net out of pocket will be more like 20% difference
Also generally we calculate costs using the gross system cost divided by nameplate DC watts.
Using the CEC ratings confuses things for most here since they are not in Ca.
With E-20's at three weeks lead it might be right for this year.

Also keep in mind that the Sunpower modules with lower temperature coefficients and lower degradation will produce more over their lifetime.

From the output numbers you showed either the Sunpower system is sandbagging the output or the other is padding a bit. But only having the AC numbers it is hard to tell
What is the wattage on the others

those were my net costs after federal tax credit.

Sunpower 36 E20's (SPR-327NE-WHT-D) for 11,772 W DC (10,416 W AC) + 1 Fronius inverter. Gross cost $56,800, net cost $38,260

Kyocera 48 KD245GX for 11,760 W DC (10,306 W AC) + 1 SMA 8000TL inverter + 1 SMA 3000TL inverter. Gross cost $43,200, net cost $28,740



i guess the bottom line is that the Sunpower is very costly over the Kyocera. not sure i want to pony up the extra cash.

[Naptown]

There are Kia's and Mercedes in the solar world
Sunpower tends to be in the latter class.
Kyocera does make a good panel and if space is not a concern it wouldn't be a bad choice.

[Ian S]

i guess the bottom line is that the Sunpower is very costly over the Kyocera. not sure i want to pony up the extra cash.

I wouldn't and I have a Sunpower system.

[J.P.M.]

those were my net costs after federal tax credit.

Sunpower 36 E20's (SPR-327NE-WHT-D) for 11,772 W DC (10,416 W AC) + 1 Fronius inverter. Gross cost $56,800, net cost $38,260

Kyocera 48 KD245GX for 11,760 W DC (10,306 W AC) + 1 SMA 8000TL inverter + 1 SMA 3000TL inverter. Gross cost $43,200, net cost $28,740



i guess the bottom line is that the Sunpower is very costly over the Kyocera. not sure i want to pony up the extra cash.

FYI, costs seem about right w/competition in San Diego, maybe a bit high on S.P. (I'm pretty sure you can do $4.50/Watt, especially for that size), but not bad. What's your tilt/azimuth ?

My educated GUESS is that the 36 S.P.'s will deliver about the same new as the 48 Kyocera's +/- a bit, but the S.P.'s will produce about 8%-10% more power over 25 yrs. at tilt = latitude, 3% dirt, TMY3 data, etc. etc., .5%/yr. est. degradation/yr. for the S.P.'s, vs. est. .7%/yr. for the 48 Kyocera's. Probably about the same as Naptown figured - difference being he probably knows a lot more about it. Still, if you have the room and can live with the looks, $10K is a lot of money to save, depending on yearly bills. You can always put the savings into conservation efforts.

J.P.M.

[bando]

FYI, costs seem about right w/competition in San Diego, maybe a bit high on S.P. (I'm pretty sure you can do $4.50/Watt, especially for that size), but not bad. What's your tilt/azimuth ?

My educated GUESS is that the 36 S.P.'s will deliver about the same new as the 48 Kyocera's +/- a bit, but the S.P.'s will produce about 8%-10% more power over 25 yrs. at tilt = latitude, 3% dirt, TMY3 data, etc. etc., .5%/yr. est. degradation/yr. for the S.P.'s, vs. est. .7%/yr. for the 48 Kyocera's. Probably about the same as Naptown figured - difference being he probably knows a lot more about it. Still, if you have the room and can live with the looks, $10K is a lot of money to save, depending on yearly bills. You can always put the savings into conservation efforts.

J.P.M.

thanks for the reply.

i don't know my tilt/azimuth but the roofs we are considering are south facing, one is slightly more west-facing but still very ideal. we dont' have any issues with shading either.

i am going to get one more quote this coming week for some LG 290w panels which might allow us to use just the one roof area, like the Sunpower, but at a more affordable price.

now we are trying to decide if using micro inverters is advantageous or not. (enphase M215) we are leaning towards cash purchase and we've been told that maybe enphase micros are the way to go with cash deal since they are warrantied for 25 years while a string inverter will have to be replaced somewhere around Year 13-18. in a prepaid lease situation however, they recommend doing a string inverter b/c it's cheaper and will be replaced by the leasing company anyway.

[J.P.M.]

thanks for the reply.

i don't know my tilt/azimuth but the roofs we are considering are south facing, one is slightly more west-facing but still very ideal. we dont' have any issues with shading either.

i am going to get one more quote this coming week for some LG 290w panels which might allow us to use just the one roof area, like the Sunpower, but at a more affordable price.

now we are trying to decide if using micro inverters is advantageous or not. (enphase M215) we are leaning towards cash purchase and we've been told that maybe enphase micros are the way to go with cash deal since they are warrantied for 25 years while a string inverter will have to be replaced somewhere around Year 13-18. in a prepaid lease situation however, they recommend doing a string inverter b/c it's cheaper and will be replaced by the leasing company anyway.

1.) Check availability of 290's vs. 260's. 290's might be longer lead time, maybe not. I'm quite sure you can get 260's installed this year for $3.40/Watt or less w/ M215's if you snoop around some.
2.) 290's may clip the M215 a bit more than the 260's, but probably not a lot.
3.) This is a crap shoot: String inverters may not last as long as micros. But, that is unknown for sure as string inv. have been around long enough to have SOME history and Enphase has 25 yr. warranty but not much history to extrapolate to the future and no guarantee they'll be around 25 yrs. I hope they are. Also, String inverter is likely less $$'s up front (??) and w/ no shade issues might be a plus to some as a single component to fail rather than 1 per panel. Also, I wouldn't be too surprised if the price of inverters both string & micro drop some over the next 10-12 yrs. making any warranty/replacement issues somewhat less significant. But, like I always say, the future isn't written yet.
4.) I haven't seen any discussion of your electric load. I'd respectfully suggest you may want to consider that it may not be cost effective to replace your entire electric load.

J.P.M.

[Ionizer]

SCE Audit!

SCE has hired a 3rd party to audit my system in comparison to what my installer stated on the rebate form. I assume this is typical? Anyone ever go through this? They are coming out tomorrow to audit the system.

I also noticed that when loggin into SCE, I can no longer follow the amount of usage from the previous day or week. SCE site states it's due to a lag in billing. I'm hoping it's just because we are in the first month and next month we can see daily usage again.

Constantly getting an average of 47kWh a day since operational two week ago.

[flinstone]

SCE Audit!

SCE has hired a 3rd party to audit my system in comparison to what my installer stated on the rebate form. I assume this is typical? Anyone ever go through this? They are coming out tomorrow to audit the system.

Ionizer, how did your audit go? What questions did they ask you? or did you even need to be home? This is the first I've heard of SCE doing onsite audits.

[Ionizer]

Ionizer, how did your audit go? What questions did they ask you? or did you even need to be home? This is the first I've heard of SCE doing onsite audits.

He was on-time! He stated it's something SCE is going to be doing more regularly due to the inconsistencies from installers preparing rebate forms.

And yes I had to be there due to the inverter is located in the garage.

He was on my roof for about 15 minutes and at the box for about 10 minutes. Each panel was reviewed. He made sure the SCE tags were on the meter.

He found 2 errors that I was told should or must be addressed by the installer or maybe the CSI form modified.

Installer submitted the rebate form (Prior to the Switch) with the X21 345's though we switched to the X21 335's. So the total wattage was wrong on the form, with incorrect panels.
The other was the tilt angle was off more then 3% of what was submitted. I think he said it was off 7%. Obviously done before the install.

Either way, the auditor stated he would submit to SCE and the installer would have to address.

FYI: I have already settled with the installer witch did a rebate credit off the total bill. They where to get the total CSI rebate.

[bando]

FYI: I have already settled with the installer witch did a rebate credit off the total bill. They where to get the total CSI rebate.

are you still eligible for the CSI rebate? i thought it was used up already for residential installs.

[Ionizer]

are you still eligible for the CSI rebate? i thought it was used up already for residential installs.

Per The SCE website, http://www.csi-trigger.com/

SCE Residential 3.19 Mega Watts still available (not under pre approval). Though it's in tier 10 (has been for awhile now)

[bando]

Per The SCE website, http://www.csi-trigger.com/

SCE Residential 3.19 Mega Watts still available (not under pre approval). Though it's in tier 10 (has been for awhile now)

thanks. you are lucky. SDG&E is tapped out and not even on that chart!! i did call them though and they said they hope CSI will reallocate some of the unused commercial funding into the residential installs.

[frizzlefry]

Good news is the materials will be delivered tomorrow morning with installation to begin in the afternoon. It's been a long wait but glad to get it in before year end. Here's hoping for a smooth install.

[frizzlefry]

Installation was completed yesterday with city inspection passing today. Still need to connect monitoring to the router but now really just waiting for SCE to come out. Currently they're saying two weeks average time... Let's hope so.

We had the system running for a few hours today... Too bad I couldn't run it all day. Temps hit near 90F today. WTH happened to our fall, winter and spring? Felt like summer.