One last look before we sign for Sunpower system

[Noob]

I guess I should consider myself lucky that my electric rates have been pretty stable over the last 6 years. Right now I have a 2 tier rate. Tier 1 < 1000kwh @ $0.1076 and Tier 2 > 1000kwh @ $0.1285.

Although now that I am looking at it ours went up about 6.5% from $0.101 to $0.1076 for the Tier 1. I have to go find my data for the Tier 2 rates. Either way the Florida rate is way below Southern CA and are actually supposed to go down once they eliminate a fee which we are being charged to be used for a future nuclear generating plant that probably will never be built.

Are those 10 cent rates inclusive of both supply and delivery charge? That's so much less than it is in NY.

[SunEagle]

Are those 10 cent rates inclusive of both supply and delivery charge? That's so much less than it is in NY.

The rate is for electric used. There are other costs like tax and meter charge which increases the bill somewhat. I think the "fixed rider" cost is about $0.44/day during the lower tier and about $0.92/day during the upper tier. Overall I think the cost is closer to $0.14/kwh when you add it all up.

I also have a credit of about $5.75/mth for allowing to have my AC and Pool pump shed during critical need times. It use to be about $10/mth when I had an electric water heater but I went to a solar heated one about 2 years ago.

My last months bill was $176.70 for 1316kwh. Energy was $148.22 and the rider cost was $28.48.

[cyph]

I was referring to a rough average of the two posters' (System Cost - Net Cost) for their two similarly priced systems.

I explained that in an answer at http://www.solarpaneltalk.com/showth...ll=1#post73796

No harm no foul...

Maybe I'm being dense but that's the same figure I was referring to. 1474+10687+500 = 12661 and 1761 + 12222 = 13983. In both cases, the CSI rebate (first figure) is carried by the installer whereas the tax rebate is refunded in the federal return (30% of total cost of system is 10687 and 12222 respectively). There are two incentives here, the CSI rebate which is carried by the installer and the federal incentive paid as a tax credit. In either case, they would lose the opportunity cost for that 10.6k and 12.2k for one year (or less depending on when they purchase the system).

[cyph]

I guess I should consider myself lucky that my electric rates have been pretty stable over the last 6 years. Right now I have a 2 tier rate. Tier 1 < 1000kwh @ $0.1076 and Tier 2 > 1000kwh @ $0.1285.

Although now that I am looking at it ours went up about 6.5% from $0.101 to $0.1076 for the Tier 1. I have to go find my data for the Tier 2 rates. Either way the Florida rate is way below Southern CA and are actually supposed to go down once they eliminate a fee which we are being charged to be used for a future nuclear generating plant that probably will never be built.

With electricity that cheap, how can you even make solar cost effective? Where I live, 1000 kwh is $235 a month.

[Noob]

Maybe I'm being dense but that's the same figure I was referring to. 1474+10687+500 = 12661 and 1761 + 12222 = 13983. In both cases, the CSI rebate (first figure) is carried by the installer whereas the tax rebate is refunded in the federal return (30% of total cost of system is 10687 and 12222 respectively). There are two incentives here, the CSI rebate which is carried by the installer and the federal incentive paid as a tax credit. In either case, they would lose the opportunity cost for that 10.6k and 12.2k for one year (or less depending on when they purchase the system).

But that's why we're talking about different things. You're addressing the rebates coming back but I'm talking about the 12661 and 13983 figures that, at the "end of the day" and with all incentives received, they STILL PAID OUT.

I think. The idea is "what if, instead of having spent that money, one were to invest it in a fund with a hoped-for 7% return".

But we're kind of talking it to death I think.

[frizzlefry]

I guess I should consider myself lucky that my electric rates have been pretty stable over the last 6 years. Right now I have a 2 tier rate. Tier 1 < 1000kwh @ $0.1076 and Tier 2 > 1000kwh @ $0.1285.

Although now that I am looking at it ours went up about 6.5% from $0.101 to $0.1076 for the Tier 1. I have to go find my data for the Tier 2 rates. Either way the Florida rate is way below Southern CA and are actually supposed to go down once they eliminate a fee which we are being charged to be used for a future nuclear generating plant that probably will never be built.

Be glad you don't have these rates:

TIER RATE kWh
Tier 1 $0.13 474
Tier 2 $0.16 143
Tier 3 $0.28 332
Tier 4 $0.32 >949

This is just winter rates.

[SunEagle]

With electricity that cheap, how can you even make solar cost effective? Where I live, 1000 kwh is $235 a month.

I can't make it work where I currently live. That is why I have worked hard to reduce my electrical footprint. That is the most cost effective way to save "energy" money. Maybe when I build up on my property in North Florida but I have my doubts it will be cost effective anytime soon.

[craeay]

Request for Info

What was the quote difference between Canadian Solar panels vs Sunpower and SMA vs micro may I ask?

I have noticed that going with a smaller installer has been a much better experience than the bigger one so far because they try that much harder. Clean Solar wanted to charge me extra for renting a porta-potty, permits, and extra for putting the conduit through my attic totaling almost 1k on top of the quoted cost. All of this was included for me with my chosen installer. The install will be finished today and I'm pretty happy with it. No conduits running to the side of the house and no panels can be seen from the front. All hidden.

Do you mind telling me what you had installed and if my numbers are similar to your numbers? Thanks!

[cyph]

Do you mind telling me what you had installed and if my numbers are similar to your numbers? Thanks!

I did not go with SunPower. Much of my research points me to having the highest kw system at the lowest cost. I went with a 5kw, Canadian Solar panels with Enphase micro. It came out to $3.6 a watt pre-rebate and $2.5 net. I can live with that number as that will zero out my bill. From this point on (installed today, meter going backward, but no final inspection yet), the solar panel will pop out $150-$200 a month for at least 25 years. I like this analogy so much better than ROI.

[Naptown]

I did not go with SunPower. Much of my research points me to having the highest kw system at the lowest cost. I went with a 5kw, Canadian Solar panels with Enphase micro. It came out to $3.6 a watt pre-rebate and $2.5 net. I can live with that number as that will zero out my bill. From this point on (installed today, meter going backward, but no final inspection yet), the solar panel will pop out $150-$200 a month for at least 25 years. I like this analogy so much better than ROI.

I hope you are enjoying paying the POCO for the pleasure of your meter going backwards.

[craeay]

I did not go with SunPower. Much of my research points me to having the highest kw system at the lowest cost. I went with a 5kw, Canadian Solar panels with Enphase micro. It came out to $3.6 a watt pre-rebate and $2.5 net. I can live with that number as that will zero out my bill. From this point on (installed today, meter going backward, but no final inspection yet), the solar panel will pop out $150-$200 a month for at least 25 years. I like this analogy so much better than ROI.

Thanks, Cyph. From signing of the contract to install, how long did it take? How much longer do you think you will need to wait for the electricity company to switch it on?

[cyph]

I hope you are enjoying paying the POCO for the pleasure of your meter going backwards.

Yes, but at least I'm not PAYING them for my electricity while it's going backward.

[cyph]

Thanks, Cyph. From signing of the contract to install, how long did it take? How much longer do you think you will need to wait for the electricity company to switch it on?

Funny you asked, from signing to finished and waiting for inspection is ONE week. That's the side benefit of going with a smaller installer. He said someone canceled, but I believe he's just not as busy as the bigger companies. I expect 2-4 weeks for PGE to switch me over to net metering. Or they will come out early to see why my electric use has gone down 80%.

They recently installed smart meters in all the homes and I believe these smart meters are also net meters. Since this afternoon when they hooked up the panels, my kwhr has gone in reverse by 10 kwhr.

[cyph]

I hope you are enjoying paying the POCO for the pleasure of your meter going backwards.

My understanding is that PGE charges me based on the difference between the kwhr number from the beginning of the pay period to the end. If it counts backward, and the difference is say 20-30 kwhr instead of 850, then that's what they'd charge me. Since it's a partial month, the number shouldn't be negative. I think I will still get the benefit of a lower bill even without the net metering contract in place. I just won' get paid for excess power sold to them if it ever goes negative for the entire month.

[frizzlefry]

Just signed and submitted contracts and paperwork. Looking forward to a no hassle install commissioned by the end of July.