One last look before we sign for Sunpower system

[Naptown]

There are Kia's and Mercedes in the solar world
Sunpower tends to be in the latter class.
Kyocera does make a good panel and if space is not a concern it wouldn't be a bad choice.

[bando]

Figure your difference also after federal credit. The net out of pocket will be more like 20% difference
Also generally we calculate costs using the gross system cost divided by nameplate DC watts.
Using the CEC ratings confuses things for most here since they are not in Ca.
With E-20's at three weeks lead it might be right for this year.

Also keep in mind that the Sunpower modules with lower temperature coefficients and lower degradation will produce more over their lifetime.

From the output numbers you showed either the Sunpower system is sandbagging the output or the other is padding a bit. But only having the AC numbers it is hard to tell
What is the wattage on the others

those were my net costs after federal tax credit.

Sunpower 36 E20's (SPR-327NE-WHT-D) for 11,772 W DC (10,416 W AC) + 1 Fronius inverter. Gross cost $56,800, net cost $38,260

Kyocera 48 KD245GX for 11,760 W DC (10,306 W AC) + 1 SMA 8000TL inverter + 1 SMA 3000TL inverter. Gross cost $43,200, net cost $28,740



i guess the bottom line is that the Sunpower is very costly over the Kyocera. not sure i want to pony up the extra cash.

[Naptown]

Figure your difference also after federal credit. The net out of pocket will be more like 20% difference
Also generally we calculate costs using the gross system cost divided by nameplate DC watts.
Using the CEC ratings confuses things for most here since they are not in Ca.
With E-20's at three weeks lead it might be right for this year.

Also keep in mind that the Sunpower modules with lower temperature coefficients and lower degradation will produce more over their lifetime.

From the output numbers you showed either the Sunpower system is sandbagging the output or the other is padding a bit. But only having the AC numbers it is hard to tell
What is the wattage on the others

[bando]

Don't compare a per panel price
Compare the $ per watt DC
It would be unfair to compare a 327 watt panel with say a 250 watt panel on the gross panel price. They are two different things
$ per watt is the only fair comparison
So taking that into account
48x 600 = $28800
36 x 1025 = $36900 or 3.13 a watt
A very good price for sunpower
Do the math on the other one

The others are according to your post 245 watt
You buy sat by the watt not panel

sorry, i thought i mentioned that it's similar production and offset, so is that not like comparing apples to apples? i'm just trying to get a sense for "how much" of a premium you are paying for the Sunpower name.

(1) Sunpower 36 panel system - 10,416 W AC (CEC-Rated) - $38,260 would bring it to $3.67 per W AC

(2) Kyocera 48 panel system - 10,306 W AC (CEC-Rated) - $28,740 would bring it to $2.78 per W AC


So that would be approximately 32% price premium per Watt just for the Sunpower E20's over a "regular " panel like the Kyocera KD245GX. Is that a fair estimate? Or can be negotiate the Sunpower down to more like a 20% premium?

We have plenty of room for the 48 Kyocera panels however it would span two areas of the house. With the fewer Sunpower panels, we can get all 36 in a perfect rectangle over just one area which is preferable to us aesthetically.

The other problem is the availability of Sunpower puts us into 2014 and we don't know if that's worth it if we can just get something in by 12/31/13 and make the most out of the federal tax credit.

What do you think?

[Ian S]

Don't compare a per panel price
Compare the $ per watt DC
It would be unfair to compare a 327 watt panel with say a 250 watt panel on the gross panel price. They are two different things
$ per watt is the only fair comparison
So taking that into account
48x 600 = $28800
36 x 1025 = $36900 or 3.13 a watt
A very good price for sunpower
Do the math on the other one

The others are according to your post 245 watt
You buy sat by the watt not panel

Sounds to me like Sunpower has found the way to avoid being lumped in with other panels as a "commodity" item. Not so long ago, some folks were claiming they'd go bankrupt. Now they can't satisfy demand and their stock is soaring to a two-year high!

[frizzlefry]

Was that a Sunpower lease or a purchase through a dealer

327 white last update were 3 weeks on purchase ( as of 9/25)

It was purchase. Sorry what I wrote was a bit off. Lead time would have been the same time we were expecting X panels which would be October. So about 4-5wks at the time I had asked.

[Naptown]

When we tried to switch a month ago to E series panels we were told similar lead times as X series.

Was that a Sunpower lease or a purchase through a dealer

327 white last update were 3 weeks on purchase ( as of 9/25)

[frizzlefry]

thanks. are the E20's backordered too? i suppose sunpower in general is too expensive to store on hand.

When we tried to switch a month ago to E series panels we were told would come in at the same time we were expecting the X series. [edited for clarification]

[Naptown]

Don't compare a per panel price
Compare the $ per watt DC
It would be unfair to compare a 327 watt panel with say a 250 watt panel on the gross panel price. They are two different things
$ per watt is the only fair comparison
So taking that into account
48x 600 = $28800
36 x 1025 = $36900 or 3.13 a watt
A very good price for sunpower
Do the math on the other one

The others are according to your post 245 watt
You buy sat by the watt not panel

[bando]

The e-20 is one percent less efficient
The x panels are back ordered for 24 weeks
Not much difference between the 327 and the 335 or 345
the x panels are also a
Bit more expensive and have a black back sheet so you don't see the diamonds and cell spacing.
I don't know why the discontinued the black back on the E20

thanks. are the E20's backordered too? i suppose sunpower in general is too expensive to store on hand.

[bando]

also, we have some quotes from a local vendor in San Diego and have seen the following:

48 Kyocera panels come out to about $600/panel
36 Sunpower panels come out to about $1025/panel

same output, same bill offset projections


does that seem about right to you? that Sunpower panels (all else being equal) cost 70% more than other panels ?!?!? i knew it would be MORE however i thought the fact that you'd need less # of panels and less roof space was worth maybe a 25-30% premium. but 70% premium for the brand name just seems astronomical

[Naptown]

The e-20 is one percent less efficient
The x panels are back ordered for 24 weeks
Not much difference between the 327 and the 335 or 345
the x panels are also a
Bit more expensive and have a black back sheet so you don't see the diamonds and cell spacing.
I don't know why the discontinued the black back on the E20

[bando]

Are there any companies out there that can supply SunPower panels before the end of the year? We'd hate to install one in January and have to wait a full year to take the credit.

Also, are the E series panels "outdated" now and not preferable to the X series? The quote we received for Sunpower panels is for the E20. Not sure if we should insist on X

[inetdog]

One caveat
PV watts is based on 20 years average weather.
If you read the disclaimer the predicted output can vary by up to 20%

And that is not even taking into account global weirding.

[Naptown]

One caveat
PV watts is based on 20 years average weather.
If you read the disclaimer the predicted output can vary by up to 20%